Building Startups Across International Markets: A Global Journey of Entrepreneurship with Viktor Kyosev, Chief of Staff at Docquity

In this episode of Business Beyond Borders, we have the pleasure of speaking with Viktor Kyosev, an experienced startup entrepreneur with a wealth of knowledge in building startups across cultures, having worked across multiple countries Bulgaria, Greece Denmark, Taiwan, Indonesia, and Singapore. 

Viktor is currently the Chief of Staff at Docquity, Southeast Asia’s largest professional community of healthcare professionals, playing a pivotal role in supporting the founding team across various crucial projects, ranging from product development to talent management. He is also an Entrepreneur in Residence at Big Bang Angels Inc., an early-stage institutional investor with a focus on cross-border startups in Singapore and Korea.

In this episode, we cover:

• Viktor's role as Chief of Staff at Docquity
• The importance of learning through doing and prioritizing growth
• Challenges of expanding into new markets 
• Tips for quickly understanding and adapting to different cultures
• Differences between building startups in emerging markets and developed markets
• The unique challenges and opportunities of the Asian market

If you're an aspiring entrepreneur or a seasoned professional looking to expand your horizons, do tune in to this episode. Don't miss out on this opportunity to gain valuable insights from Viktor on the intricacies of the international startup landscape. 

Links:

Bluente's Website: https://www.bluente.com/

Viktor’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/viktorkyosev/

Our Socials: @bluente.official (Instagram and Tik Tok)

Transcript

Daphne (Host) | 00:00:00 to 00:00:29

Welcome to another episode of Business Beyond Borders. Today we are looking into the field of the startup space. We have with us today, Viktor Kyosev, someone who is really experienced in the startup field, having built multiple startups from scratch over the past few years. He has also lived and worked across multiple countries from Bulgaria, Greece, Denmark, Taiwan, Indonesia and Singapore. Learning about different cultures and having lived and worked across different countries is definitely something that makes his startup experience a unique one.

Daphne (Host) | 00:00:29 to 00:00:58

And we can't wait to dive in to learn more in a short bit. Today, Viktor is the chief of Staff at Docquity, Southeast Asia's largest community of healthcare professionals. He supports the founding team in multiple areas across crucial projects such as product development as well as talent management. He's also the entrepreneur in residence at Big Bang Angels Inc., an early stage institutional investors that supports cross border startups across Singapore and South Korea.

Daphne (Host) | 00:00:58 to 00:01:09

They also support companies on their business expansion plans through Singapore and Canada, and we can't wait to learn more. Let's dive in. Victor, welcome to today's episode. Thank you so much for having me and thank you very much for the great intro.

Daphne (Host) | 00:01:09 to 00:01:34

No worries. Maybe we can start off by learning more about your day to day job. Now in Docquity, as Chief of Staff, we'd love to learn a bit more about what you do on a day to day basis. 

Viktor (Guest) | 00:01:34 to 00:02:25

You know, Chief of Staff is the kind of role that no one knows what it is. Every week I would get a random pitch either for an HR solution or for something that's completely out of scope for what I do on day to day. So it's a very unique role and I think once a month I write on LinkedIn what it is actually to be a Chief of Staff. You know, in my case it's also from Chief of Staff to Chief of Staff it's also quite different because I'm part of a meetup of different Chief of Staff here in Singapore, and whenever we meet, I realize that again, from company to company it's quite different. In the case of Docquity you know in year one. So last year when I joined, I did all kinds of work, like from recruiting for executive roles for the founders and then just vetting candidates until the last round when the founder would show up. Sometimes jumping on calls with investors and just answering hard questions out of the blue, or at other moments stepping up into different executive roles because we don't have someone at that time and I need to lead the team temporarily.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:02:25 to 00:02:48

So a bit of everything. So it was like jack of all trades and just the right hand of the founders. And my role slowly has shifted more and more towards special projects. And under special projects, I essentially build products from zero to one in a stealth mode. And once we validate that there is potential in that product, only then we bring it to the core product and integrate. So that's how it kind of evolved over time.

Daphne (Host) | 00:02:49 to 00:03:00

Right. Which is your favorite secret mission as a Chief of Staff over the past few years? 

Viktor (Guest) | 00:03:00 to 00:03:37

I do like the most building. So what I do right now, I think I was gradually pulling my responsibilities towards that. So whenever I noticed something wasn't working, or we would have a discussion and we would talk about, oh, it would be great if we can have that, but then it would take so much time to build that. And then I would just, in my spare time, would go and build a quick prototype and I would bring it to the founders and they're like, oh, how did you build that so fast? So I did a bit of that, and whenever I was working with that, I really enjoyed it. So I think gradually they just give me more and more freedom to do that because they saw that I can get it done and they're happy with the outcome. So, yeah, eventually I just end up doing only this.

Daphne (Host) | 00:03:37 to 00:04:04

 Very nice. And what's your personal philosophy towards product building? 

Viktor (Guest) | 00:04:05 to 00:04:32

I have learned the hard way by failing a lot of things, so making a lot of mistakes in my entrepreneurial journey. So I do like to build really fast, like using low code, no code solutions, and then learning as much as I can by having interactions with users or clients. And I do believe that growth solves all of your problems. So just really trying to figure out what's important for this particular product and then accelerate growth as much as we can. Because I think you learn a lot more by doing versus anticipating and debating because a lot of product teams end up just having these big conversations around what they want to do versus by just doing it real quick. You just learn so much more. Correct.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:04:33 to 00:04:52

Right. So I have this urge to do things and sometimes it's unreasonable. I can sense it because the team is like, this is just impossible. But at times I feel like research really helps you to get the job done, no matter how hard it seems to be. Because I think in technology you can get the job done in so many different ways.

Daphne (Host) | 00:04:52 to 00:04:58

Correct. There is no one path. Yes. Right. So, yeah, like, really getting it fast, I think it's paramount.

Daphne (Host) | 00:04:58 to 00:05:25

Okay. And also we understand that previously you are the CEO of Greenhouse Co., a company that supports foreign companies entering fast growing markets and wanted to learn a bit more about your experience there while helping companies to do so, expanding across different countries. What were some of the insights or nuances that you have observed over the past, your experience there? And also what advice do you have for companies looking to expand to new markets?

Viktor (Guest) | 00:05:25 to 00:05:45

Yes. So with Greenhouse, we built a marketplace for service providers who are focused on professional services. When I speak of professional services, I mean business development, recruitment, legal, so pretty much everything you need as a foreign company coming into the region, it can be pretty intimidating. I mean, Singapore is different story because it's very transparent. It's all in English.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:05:45 to 00:05:50

So Singapore is not a challenge. The challenge is outside Singapore. We go to Indonesia. Philippines. Vietnam.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:05:50 to 00:06:14

These markets become really, really difficult, you know, working with the right partner can mean the world to you, right, and really make a lot of progress or otherwise the wrong partner can kill your business. So I think a lot of companies don't prepare enough before coming in. They look at the map and they're like, oh, this market looks amazing. It's huge. And I think it definitely going to work for us.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:06:14 to 00:06:40

But the reality is that all these markets are really difficult and price sensitive. And most companies assume that they would just kind of activate a network of partners, like distributors resellers that want to sell their product or service. But then again, the reality is that all these distributors and resellers work with a bunch of other companies. So why would they prioritize you right? And there is a lot of science and art to how do you get this done, not to say that it's impossible.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:06:40 to 00:06:54

Of course it's possible. And there's many, many companies that have been successful. The challenge is how do you navigate the culture? How do you build different campaign around each country? Like even at Docquity, we operate across all countries here in Southeast Asia.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:06:54 to 00:07:14

And we've been fairly successful in Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, Vietnam, Thailand and Taiwan. And you know, in each market the playbook is different. There is some similarities, absolutely, but it's very different. And whenever we try to copy something that works in one market and bring it to another, it almost never works. I think that's the mistake a lot of companies do.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:07:14 to 00:07:36

They just don't really plan well and they don't try to localize enough their solution and they just expect quick results. Which of course, in these markets can take more time than, I guess, in an American market. Which is much more mature and people are not price sensitive. And they're used to the business and they've seen the benefit of using software over extended period of time. Whereas in Southeast Asia is still kind of a new thing.

Daphne (Host) | 00:07:36 to 00:08:07

Of a new correct, correct. And diving a little bit more into what you have shared, maybe could you share one or two examples of these nuances that you have observed maybe in Indonesia or Thailand, for example, how has your experience been observing these countries? 

Viktor (Guest) | 00:08:07 to 00:08:21

So, like, for example, let's take Indonesia. I spent four years in Indonesia and I love Indonesia, you know my my girlfriend's from Indonesia. I have a lot of friends there. So I do visit once a month and I like it quite a bit. But at the same time, I think Indonesia is quite a difficult market. I think first of all. Overall, it's a very laid back country, right? So it's very hard to rush people and tell them, oh, I need this tomorrow.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:08:21 to 00:08:42

People get really frustrated, and they don't like to be pushed too much. I think it's part of the culture. So finding the right balance of being strict and making sure the business grows, but also being supportive, it's very tricky. And also it's a very religious country. So in the beginning, I used to be shocked when someone's going to be, oh, I'm going to go pray.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:08:42 to 00:08:59

And I'm like now. Why now? It's expected that, you know that, and over time you do learn that. But in the beginning, it can be a bit shocking for the foreigners because we're, I guess less religious and we don't anticipate these kind of things. So, yeah, Indonesia has been really tricky.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:09:00 to 00:09:32

Very laid back, very chill, very religious. So it's very important to respect their holidays and all kinds of different celebrations that they have. Also very collectivistic. When we when we ran greenhouse, in the beginning, we used to have a co working space, so we would gather a lot of people and do all kinds of different activities. And in the beginning, I was like, okay, let's follow the Western playbook. Let's bring some really kick ass speakers, and that's going to bring the crowd, and people are going to come together, and that's going to build a community.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:09:32 to 00:09:48

And we brought some interesting speakers and no one showed up. What's going on? Why is this not working? This has always worked in the West. And then I was talking to one of my employees, and I kind of gave her a lead to design something herself.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:09:48 to 00:10:04

And she just brought food, and she just bought a lot of food, and everyone showed up, and there was no agenda. There was no people speaking. And people just showed up for the food, and they loved it, and they had so much time, and we got a lot of good reviews afterwards. And I was like, this is so fascinating. Right?

Viktor (Guest) | 00:10:04 to 00:10:15

Everything that I believed to be true, it just doesn't work. So I learned that lesson, the hard way. 

Daphne (Host) | 00:10:16 to 00:10:58

Okay. Okay. And what about your current role as entrepreneur and residents in Big Bang Angels Inc. Maybe you can share a little bit more about what you do. You know, Big Bank has a portfolio of Korean startups that their thesis is that they would help them expand because Korea is a very exciting market, but it's a small market at the end of the day, so the government is really pushing for the local startup ecosystem to grow into international success cases. So I spent a lot of time helping them build their go to market and adapt their deck. And the thing about the startup ecosystem in Korea is that most of the founders come from LG or Samsung or Hyundai, and they're super technical. PhDs much older, so they're highly technical when you look at their deck, so sophisticated, so complicated.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:10:58 to 00:11:17

And I'm like, I have no idea what you're doing. Right. So I spent a lot of time with them just trying to polish the message and make it crisp and easy to understand. So I think the challenge many of these companies are having is just how do they communicate the value they're creating? And also because, again, the culture and these people are much more senior.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:11:17 to 00:11:36

Right. So they would expect to be treated with a lot of respect. And they think that when they pitch internationally, someone cares about whether they have a PhD or not. And of course, I do pay attention and I do notice these kind of things, but it's not like it makes a huge difference in my mind. But they expect that everyone's going to treat them with a lot of respect.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:11:36 to 00:11:47

So it's a lot of coaching around. How do you prepare, how do you do business with different cultures. Now, you're going to them, right? You're going to a different country, so you should be the one that should adapt. They shouldn't be right.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:11:47 to 00:12:02

Unless they come to Korea, then you can expect them to adapt. Right. So a lot of coaching around how to polish their narrative, how to make it more international, how to articulate their value better, and how to prepare overall for that expansion. Correct. And how about language?

Daphne (Host) | 00:12:02 to 00:12:03

Was there ever a barrier?

Viktor (Guest) | 00:12:06 to 00:12:22

All the time, especially with Korean companies. Yeah, big barrier. So there have been cases where the product is great and the investors are really pushing them to go abroad. So I would step up, and I would try to lead some of their meetings internationally. Okay.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:12:22 to 00:12:40

Just in the beginning, until I build a trust. And once the trust is there, I'm going to be like, okay, now the founders should step in a bit more and try to either hire someone who can come in and speak fluently English or whatever. But yeah, language has been a massive problem with Korean companies. But getting better. Getting better.

Daphne (Host) | 00:12:40 to 00:12:45

Yeah. And I also noticed and understand that you speak quite a number of languages.

Daphne (Host) | 00:12:47 to 00:13:00

What made you interested to pick up different languages? You know Europeans speak a lot of languages. All Europeans speak a lot of languages. I'm kind of an exception that I didn't learn too many. I studied Russian growing up, but I never practiced.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:13:00 to 00:13:21

So, like, anything else kind of fades away. But I can read and understand context, but I never practiced that much. Then when I moved to Denmark denmark is a great country and very open because I moved there for studies. So they opened their educational system for people in the EU, so I didn't need to pay anything to actually study there. So that was amazing.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:13:21 to 00:14:02

And the government had a lot of programs where they were trying to kind of help us integrate better. But day to day on the street, talking to girls, or trying to get a job if you don't speak Danish, even though, like, maybe 80 something percent of the population in Denmark is fluent in English, people just ignore you or they'll be a bit upset, or they would be a bit disappointed, like girls. I remember going out to party and I would see this girl looking at me, and I would go and say something in English, and immediately she loses interest. Oh my God, this is terrible. So then it's the kind of country where speaking the language makes a big difference, even though everyone speaks English.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:14:02 to 00:14:25

So I used to go to a Danish school after work or something like that and try to pick the language. But the problem with the Danish language is that it's very difficult language for pronunciation. So a lot of the vowels they have don't exist in my language. So it took me like three or four years to start hearing them. Before that, I couldn't even recognize the difference in pronunciation.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:14:25 to 00:14:44

So that was a tough language. I never mastered it. But again, by the end, I could read, and I didn't need help to order food or find directions and stuff like that. So, yeah, I wouldn't say I'm fluent, but definitely we had the foundations that made me a bit more confident in my day to day. Right?

Daphne (Host) | 00:14:44 to 00:15:15

And I'm quite curious to dive into your experiences living and working across many different countries. You are in Bulgaria, Greece, Denmark, Taiwan, and then even here, Indonesia, Singapore. How has these global experience shaped the way you lead drive projects and also your perspective towards what you're going to do next? Yeah, I think that's a good question. I was helping a French founder expand to Asia, and that was like a really wake up call.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:15:15 to 00:15:41

So founders are very smart, and they know they're smart, right, because they raise capital, the product is working, and to an extent at least. So most founders are very smart and confident, and some of them are very cocky and arrogant. So I was working with that guy, and he asked for my help in introducing him to a few potential clients. Okay. And that's always very hard, right, because I need to pull my personal network, my personal social capital.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:15:41 to 00:16:00

But I was like, okay, that's a potentially big account back in the greenhouse days. So I was like, let's see. So I just introduced him to a few people. And you know, in Asia, when you have a meeting, you don't directly start discussing the terms of payment and how you do. You're not like, oh, let's go directly to business.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:16:00 to 00:16:34

Usually you try to understand a bit of person, trying to build a bit of relationship, try to understand their story. And down the road, if things align, it makes sense, then you close the deal and that guy would just immediately jump on the topic and he would cut the local person so much because he was very confident in his product and he just wanted to deliver the message and be done okay. He didn't want anything nice to be said. He didn't want to build any relationship. He was like, this is what I'm doing, and if you're not interested by and I was just observing this and I was feeling like very uncomfortable because that's also my personal brand.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:16:35 to 00:17:06

And he had zero respect for culture. And at the same time, it was also a lesson for me of how much I have learned because I think if I was put in a room with an Asian businessman maybe ten years ago, I might have been like him, very direct, too fast and all that. So it was a good realization about how much I have learned to adapt and appreciate different people and try to be a bit more tolerant. So that helps a lot. It's very hard to articulate it though.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:17:06 to 00:17:35

It's very hard to teach other people. Like, I've been running some workshops on culture and what I realized it's very, very difficult to teach my team how to do it well. But at the same time, it does help me to have the necessary confidence to take on any project and task across any country and just believe in myself that I can make it work no matter how hard it is. There would be frustrations for sure, but I just have a lot more tolerance and patience than what I used to have. So I hope that answers the question.

Daphne (Host) | 00:17:35 to 00:17:50

Yeah, definitely. And interesting that you mentioned you have also been conducting workshops on culture. What aspects of culture do you find the most important when conducting businesses? Culture is so hard to communicate. And I think culture is like this.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:17:50 to 00:18:25

If you look at these analogies of having an iceberg, and on, on the very tip of the iceberg is what we see. You go to Indonesia, for example, and you would see people dressing differently and they're more religious and you'd be like, oh, this is so different. But actually that's like the very small differences. And now that I date someone in Indonesia and I'm going really deep into the culture, like I know the family and they start inviting me to family dinners and I start catching these very small nuances across everything they do. And I understand the roots of the coaching, how different it is.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:18:25 to 00:18:54

Only now I start really appreciating the depth of different cultures. And when I teach it, you know this is very hard to explain. So I like to use these frameworks like I'm sure you're familiar with Hofstede or someone like Trump, Anders or Shane because I studied in my Master's culture and communication. So that kind of maps quite well because it's numeric and it's easy to explain and then you can just throw a few examples. So this is a good way to kind of explain it to people.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:18:54 to 00:19:19

And I think people get it and understand the importance of it once they see it. Yeah. How would you advise someone who is moving to a new country to quickly understand and adapt to the culture of the unique culture of each country? I think if the decision for you to move, it's your decision and you're excited, you would embrace it and you would turn really fast. But if you're forced, let's say your company is like, you need to go there and there is a problem, I need to fix it.

Daphne (Host) | 00:19:19 to 00:19:36

Often what happens is the person doesn't want to be there, and if the person doesn't want to be there, he or she does not appreciate anything about it. So that's very hard to teach someone like that. They just refuse to learn. But if you want to be there, I think you're naturally inclined to observe.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:19:36 to 00:20:02

And I think the most important thing is just to be much more patient and observant and perhaps to connect with other experts and then have expats who've been there for a while, because the expats would notice these things. Right. Because all of them had these small frustrations that you would have because a local, if you explain it to a local, the local cannot relate. For them that's the way it is. But an expat would be like, yeah, I recognize this is how they do it here and this is how I do it in my home country.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:20:02 to 00:20:25

Right. So from that perspective, I think talking to expats that lead teams could be very beneficial because it just summarizes a lot of small bits of knowledge they have observed over a long time. Yeah. And if someone is new to a country, how do you advise them to quickly build the networks, be connected to the expat community? I can speak only of the startup ecosystem.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:20:26 to 00:20:55

What I like about the startup ecosystem is that people are fairly open. There is a lot of events, there is a lot of communities, and people would embrace you as long as you operate with integrity, which means it's clear that you're not trying to just get something out of someone, but you're also trying to support however you can. So as long as you're building I call it social capital. So you invest in small things like making introductions and being nice to people and helping them with small things that they might need. I think people would pay it back.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:20:55 to 00:21:37

So just going to different events, joining different communities I'm a member of several communities here in Singapore and in fact, it's very hard for me to stay on top of everything going on. But that's super helpful because it gives me an overview and I can always just tap on different communities and see what's going on and connect with the right people because again, connecting with the wrong community might backfire because these are very different people with different needs. Let's say that I'm a tech founder. I would love to spend time with founders or even developers or product designers or product people. But then if I would go to perhaps, let's say, scientists or something like that, who is a bit more introverted and don't go out as much, maybe that would be a bit harder for me to relate and connect and then there is no exchange of value.

Daphne (Host) | 00:21:38 to 00:21:50

Yeah, okay. And maybe two last questions. One is for people who are looking to relocate in general, what advice do you have for them? Relocate anywhere? Yeah, anywhere.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:21:50 to 00:22:14

I think. Don't overthink it. No matter how well we plan, there's going to be a lot of things that are going to frustrate you and going to be different and you wouldn't understand and might be confusing, so just do it. I remember the first time I moved countries, a lot of people called me crazy because I come from a family that could not support me financially. So a lot of people were like, this is plain stupidity.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:22:14 to 00:22:33

You're going to regret this big time because you're going to get your family into a trouble and then it's going to be bad for everyone. But then I was, like, too naive to think about it, so I just dived into it. And it was hard in the beginning, absolutely. But because I wanted it, I made it work. I figured out a way to make it work.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:22:33 to 00:23:01

So rather than overthinking and saying, oh, maybe let's do it three years later, or two years later, when I'm more financially stable, I think, you know, you can make the leap almost irrespective of your network, and you can live with very little, or with quite a bit. Like here in Singapore especially, everyone talks about how expensive Singapore is, and it is. Real estate is quite expensive, but you can also live very humbly. And I know quite a few people who live humbly. So it's a choice, right?

Viktor (Guest) | 00:23:01 to 00:23:15

It's a lifestyle, and I think you can control that. So if you really want that experience, I think you should go for it and you shouldn't overthink it. Yeah. And in your opinion, is building startups in different countries, has it been very different? Yeah, absolutely.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:23:16 to 00:24:04

The mindset, the talent, the complexity of the legislation system, everything in emerging markets in Southeast Asia, you have a lot of foundations missing, so the education is not great in many of these countries. I remember we were looking for an accountant at Greenhouse, long time back, maybe, I don't know, five, six years ago, and a guy who works on a crocodile farm in Java applied and I was shocked. I was like, how did he find about this? So you experience these kind of things and people are not showing up for interviews or things that in Europe are unthinkable. Usually people would do it, so you experience a lot of small frustrations, but at the same time, the opportunity is quite big.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:24:04 to 00:24:28

The markets are very like, population is really big, economy is growing and you sense this excitement in the air because everyone feels it. Because I can just imagine living here, because what, Singapore is 58 years old, right? So your grandparents or parents would remember what it is to be much poorer. And living through this. I'm sure it charges you with a lot of excitement.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:24:28 to 00:24:56

So people overall are much more optimistic, I feel, in Asia versus in the west. West is a lot more pessimistic, I feel, because I guess it's stagnated to an extent, some of the economies, I guess not all of them. So because of that, I just like that energy. So the benefit of building something here is that everyone want to do something and everyone want to grow, and you just fill it and it charges you with energy. And the market is big and the opportunity is there, and so many things are broken.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:24:56 to 00:25:14

So you have many opportunities to fix things, whereas in developed markets, you would have the foundations. Right. It's much easier, I guess, to find people who are qualified for what you need. But at the same time, also, the challenge is they're so social, this country. European countries are very social.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:25:14 to 00:25:22

It's impossible to fire someone. You make a mistake of firing the wrong person and you're just screwed. Right. So pros and cons. Depends what you want to do.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:25:22 to 00:25:36

If you want to also be building something really sophisticated and complicated, like a moonshot, what they call it. Right. Very hard in Asia, you don't have the necessary talent. So if you're building, like, spaceships, right. You need to be in North America.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:25:36 to 00:25:57

If you're building something difficult, you have to be there. Here, it's more like things that are proven and work. But now you can scale them and localize them and make sure that they solve a unique problem in these markets. Yeah. And having been to so many different countries, being almost a global citizen, where would you call home?

Daphne (Host) | 00:25:57 to 00:26:16

At the end of the day, I still look at my home country, like where I'm born and raised, because I spent 18 years there. So Bulgaria is still my home. But I don't know how to explain it. Whenever any of the countries where I resided does something good, I'm like, I'm proud of them.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:26:16 to 00:26:43

I feel like I have a piece of that nationality. So the good things, I would be like, oh, I'm so proud of you. If Taiwan does something nice, or Greece does something nice, or whenever Denmark appears on some nice, I don't know, happiness index, and I'm like, oh, that's amazing. I just feel so proud because I spent some time there and I feel like I belong a bit, and if something bad happens, I kind of ignore it. I'm not living there anymore.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:26:43 to 00:26:54

Not my problem. Deal with it. Right. So I still call, to answer the question, Bulgaria my home, but it's a selective home base, so sometimes it's Bulgaria.

Viktor (Guest) | 00:26:54 to 00:27:04

When Singapore does something cool. Like, oh, I'm so proud of Singapore. Right, so you just selectively switch that as per the situation. Okay. And I think that wraps up today's episode.

Daphne (Host) | 00:27:04 to 00:27:19

Thank you so much for sharing, Viktor. Really appreciate all your insights. And also share with us your different experiences across building startups in the region as well as in Europe as well. That has been very insightful for me. Thank you so much.

Daphne (Host) | 00:27:19 to 00:27:19

Thank you.