Managing Multicultural Teams in Asia and Embracing Lifelong Learning with Jimmy Ong, SEA BDM at HP

In this episode, we sit down with Jimmy Ong, a senior business leader with over 20 years of experience. Throughout his diverse career, Jimmy has held roles in technical consulting, sales development, and strategic planning, leading teams of more than 50 and driving business of US$5 billion in emerging and developed markets. Today, Jimmy is the Business Development Manager for Southeast Asia at HP, working with channel partners and creating solutions for customers.

Jimmy is also recognised as a leading expert in learning and development. He has been engaged in consulting assignments with multinational companies and facilitated more than 100 workshops on strategy, leadership, and business transformation.  

In this episode, we cover:

• Jimmy's role at HP 
• Investment opportunities and talent development in Southeast Asia
• Cultural differences in leading diverse teams in Southeast Asia
• Benefits of studying overseas and working outside one's comfort zone
• Jimmy's ABCDE philosophy on leadership
• The importance of energy and continuous growth in leadership and learning and development

If you are keen to gain embodied insights into leadership in Southeast Asia, comprehend the subtle art of leading diverse teams with empathy and understanding, then this episode is not to be missed. 

Links:

Bluente's Website: https://www.bluente.com/

Jimmy’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmy-ong-hp/

Our Socials: @bluente.official (Instagram and Tik Tok)

Transcript

Daphne (Host) | 00:00:00 to 00:00:26

Welcome to another episode of Business Beyond Borders. Today we are very excited to have with us Jimmy Ong, a senior business leader with more than 20 years of experience in the information technology and services industry. Throughout his diverse career, Jimmy has held different roles across technical consulting, strategic management, as well as sales, development and marketing. He has led teams of more than 50 in size, as well as more than 5 billion U.S.

Daphne (Host) | 00:00:26 to 00:00:56

Dollars in value. This is done across both developed as well as emerging markets, which we are very excited to learn more in a short while. Beyond work, Jimmy is also seen as an expert in the learning and development space. He has also been engaged in multiple consulting projects with multinational companies, and he has facilitated more than 100 different workshops in strategy leadership as well as business transformation. Welcome, Jimmy, to today's podcast.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:00:57 to 00:01:14

Yeah. Thank you, Daphne. Glad to be here this morning. 

Daphne (Host) | 00:01:15 to 00:01:42

Yeah, maybe before we start, we'd love to learn more about your role, your current role in HP. I believe you are currently leading the Global Channels team and would love to learn more about what your day to day role look like. Yeah, thanks. So I've been working for HP for the last 20 years and across different kind of roles from like, what you just mentioned. And currently what I'm doing is that I'm focusing on working with the channel partners in this part of the world and help them to grow their businesses with HP. Okay, and what exactly do you do with the channel partners? Could you share with some examples?

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:01:42 to 00:02:25

Yeah, so as you know that today we are in a different world, in a hybrid world, and there's different needs of our customer wanting the It services and solution. And HP sold our solution through our channel partner. And I would say that about 80% of the business is sold through our business partner. Okay. And my role is working with this business partner to kind of co create and kind of create the experience solution for our customer to give them the right IT needs and also, I would say, the kind of experience for our customer.

Daphne (Host) | 00:02:25 to 00:02:55

Okay, very nice. And I think earlier I've also briefly described that you have taken on a lot of different roles over the years. Maybe would love for you to share with us which has been your most favorite role or most memorable role and why? 

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:02:55 to 00:03:40

Yeah, thanks for the question. You know, I have, through my career in HP, I worked like seven, eight roles and from sales and marketing to technical to operation. And one of the role that now that you asked me, I think I'm most excited in the role when I was a Chief of Staff for the country MD in Southeast Asia. And let me explain why I love that role. And now I'm based in Singapore, and it's in a unique, I would say a position or opportunity to cover Southeast Asia in this part of the world. And my role is actually supporting Southeast Asia region. And you can see that the big emerging economy, Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:03:41 to 00:04:09

And I have the opportunity to work with my manager at that time, the managing director, to craft out the investment opportunity to address the tremendous opportunity in that market. So I also have an opportunity to work on different area. One is the business part. The other area is also the learning and development to actually develop talents in this part of the world.

Daphne (Host) | 00:04:10 to 00:04:34

And having worked across Southeast Asia, I guess you will have traveled around the region a lot as well. Which is your favorite Southeast Asian country? 

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:04:34 to 00:04:59

Wow. This is a difficult question because when I go to Indonesia, I would say Indonesia is my favorite country. When I go to Vietnam, I tend to say that Vietnam is my favorite country. And indeed, I would say that there's no favorite country per se. I would say that the culture is so diverse that there's so much to learn in each country. In Indonesia, for example, they have like 200 over million people. And they used to joke with me. Right.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:04:59 to 00:05:08

Do you know how many island they have? Indonesia? No. Want to make a guess? Maybe 20 plus?

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:05:08 to 00:05:17

Yeah, I think you want to guess again. More. 50 plus more. Almost 100? More.

Daphne (Host) | 00:05:18 to 00:05:31

200 first? More? I think you tell me the answer. More than 10,000. Okay. Now, I didn't really check, but that is how big the country is.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:05:31 to 00:05:47

Right. And you can imagine the usual case when we travel to this part of the world, you'll go to the city area. Right. When you think about Indonesia, you think about which area? Maybe Jakarta.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:05:47 to 00:05:56

Jakarta, right. Bali. Right. When you think about Thailand, Bangkok, Chiang Mai and Phuket. Right.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:05:56 to 00:06:00

Malaysia, KL, Penang, Malacca.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:06:02 to 00:06:25

But that is only a small part of the big country. Right. You think about in Indonesia, you can go to Surabaya and Sumatra Island. They are so big and so huge. When you cross the border, it's a total different sets of practices and the way that they interact with each other. Yeah. So to answer your question, which is my favorite? I would say that my favorite is all the emerging countries that actually create a lot of learning opportunity for me. 

Daphne (Host) | 00:06:25 to 00:06:52

Yeah. And it's very interesting that you touched on the cultural differences across Asia, specifically Southeast Asia, and you have also been leading teams and driving businesses across these regions.

Daphne (Host) | 00:06:52 to 00:07:44

Maybe could you share with us some of the differences that you have observed and how do you have to adapt your leadership style and also management style as you think about or had experiences leading teams across this region? 

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:07:44 to 00:08:11

Yeah, now, the first thing about leading teams is that whatever background they come from, wherever country they come from, is really to understand where they're coming from. Their historical background, their cultural background. And I would say that in Southeast Asia people are more less expressive. I would say less expressive. And you need a lot more probing. And they are not like other part of Western world. Even in South Pacific, in Australia, New Zealand, they are more outspoken. So when you ask a question, they usually will not put up their hand. But in US, in Europe, or maybe in Australia, they will most likely answer questions and very proactive, even in India as well. So in South Asia.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:08:11 to 00:08:43

It's not. So you need to actually really understand them, you need to empathize with them. And I would say that being working with all the different people in this part of the world, I think the first thing is that we need to actually spend time with them and also get to know them better. And I love to use this quote. When there's no connection, there's no correction. So the first thing is about connecting with these people. 

Daphne (Host) | 00:08:43 to 00:08:57

Right. yes. Okay. Very nice. And then in terms of based on your understanding of different cultures across Asia, how do you then leverage on this understanding?

Daphne (Host) | 00:08:58 to 00:09:32

Or how did this understanding impact the way that you motivate the different teams to succeed and achieve their goals? 

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:09:32 to 00:09:45

Great question. I'll touch on the second part first, the motivation of people at work because this relates to all my experience working with different group of people. And I believe in there's no one way to motivate people until you know two things. And I'll call it the willingness and commitment. Right. Like the will. The will and the skill. Or the skill and the will. So to motivate anybody, first we need to understand do they have the skill set to do what they are doing.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:09:45 to 00:09:58

Right. If they have the skill set, the next question is are they willing to do that? Is a commitment part of it? Correct. But some people are very willing to do but they lack of skill.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:09:58 to 00:10:13

Okay. Right. As a leader, the first thing is to understand which is the one that's lacking. Right. To be more specific, if you are talking about lack of skill and we call this training, we train the person.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:10:13 to 00:10:26

If lack of will, then it's coaching. You need to understand where they're coming from. Very interesting. So we layer the culture part. Then the next question here is that now that you understand the culture, then the approach talking to them is very different.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:10:26 to 00:10:36

It might not be in a group, might want to one setting, might need some warm up. Right. Yeah. So that is my learning in terms of working with different teams.

Daphne (Host) | 00:10:36 to 00:10:44

Yeah. Could you share with us maybe some specific examples that you've observed by country, if possible? 

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:10:47 to 00:11:06

Oh, of course. Let me start with and I will do that. Not just Southeast Asia, across Asia Pacific. Because I spend a lot of time in South Asia as well. Besides, the place I love. But I spend a lot of time in China, in India and at some point in Japan as well.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:11:06 to 00:11:48

And I will share in the context of business in term of differences. So let me start with the China and to be more specific, I give. Example. When I first went to China as working with the business partner, I didn't have a chance to meet with the bosses immediately. They would send the people to bring me to sightseeing for the one day, for the two day and maybe go to the Great Wall of China.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:11:48 to 00:12:31

Right, go to the street in Beijing, I mean Shanghai, they bring you to see the 上海滩 at the Bund area. Then I was curious why they bring it around and we haven't talked about business discussion. Then over time I realized they are trying to test you to know that whether are you a sincere person to see the way to observe the way you interact through those interactions and activities before they actually work with you. So what's the keyword? Trust.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:12:31 to 00:12:44

Right? So that's in China. Yeah, right. So when you come to and I would say largely in Asia, that's the fundamental. Trust is really important. But there's some subtle difference.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:12:46 to 00:13:02

If you go to Thailand, for example, Thailand as you know they are usually very friendly people. In fact, they are usually smiling. They call it Land of Smiles. Yes, right.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:13:05 to 00:13:27

But the thing is that when you work with them, they also demand a lot of I would say trust before you interact with them. But they are very opinionated. Okay. They have very strong opinion about things. Right.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:13:27 to 00:13:48

However, when you actually ask them, they usually agree with you. Okay? But when you really want to push things, it's not so easy because they didn't buy the idea. Right. So I would say they are very proud nation sometimes I would say stubborn for the good.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:13:48 to 00:13:58

Right? Yeah. So that's a subtle difference. Okay, very nice. 

Daphne (Host) | 00:13:58 to 00:14:06

And I also noticed that throughout your career you also spent a couple of years living overseas. How is that experience in your view different from frequent travel across the region and the area?

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:14:10 to 00:14:35

So as a frequent travel stop by different country, what the people in that country will perceive you is you are spending in the country, right? You're contributing to the economy, so they welcome you, right, please come and spend. But you are living in a country they will say, oh, you take away my job, you are here to compete with me. So that's different. First difference.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:14:35 to 00:15:08

Right. So there's some different tension that you might face, but usually not the case. It's just that if you observe that there's some difference I would say that I give you an example when I stay in Shanghai. As a tourist, I went there many times or as a I would say a frequent travel. And if you don't live there, you just travel there, a lot of things is really point to point on the surface.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:15:08 to 00:15:26

Right. You don't really spend time you don't really spend time to observe the culture, the values, the way that they react. I remember one of the questions that one of Shanghainese friends asked me, and that was before I even stayed there. He asked me, do you know Shanghai? I said yes, of course.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:15:26 to 00:15:42

I've been here many times. Okay, let me test you. Then he said, when you fall sick, what number do you call? Which hospital would you go? How do you queue to see a doctor?

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:15:42 to 00:15:45

Yes. I say, I don't know. Then you never live.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:15:48 to 00:16:13

So let me call out the subtle difference. When you actually live in a place, you actually interact, you actually, I would say, live the life of what people there does. Right? Yeah. And I think that that is more important than just visiting. That's actually really understand the dealing and the culture part of the country.

Daphne (Host) | 00:16:14 to 00:16:54

 Okay. I think maybe just to touch one last point before I move on to another question, which is, how has this experience living abroad changed your perspective towards leading teams as well as, I guess, in your other role, learning and development? 

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:16:54 to 00:17:16

Yeah, this is a good question, and I have a lot of insights on this particular question that you have. And I will touch on this. Not just living in overseas for work, you can also think about study overseas, right. Or spend a certain amount of time abroad. Okay. Now, the first thing is that what I call our generative model. Okay.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:17:16 to 00:17:55

And our belief. And interesting point that you asked also, because when my daughter wanted to study overseas, I object. Why? I say Singapore has the best university in the world, right? NUS NTU SMU SUTD our university, they are ranked top in the world. Many people come to Singapore to study.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:17:56 to 00:18:13

Why you go outside of Singapore to study? And I was quite determined to say that actually you can study here. But I give her a condition. I say that if only you get a scholarship, then you go.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:18:14 to 00:18:30

If not, Singapore is the best place. And of course, she worked hard and then she got a scholarship and studied overseas. Now in her second year in Canada. Nice. Now, I want to give the example to a context, the example I'm bringing.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:18:30 to 00:19:00

Right. I was actually narrow minded. I thought Singapore have all it is to learn everything in a very global university. Actually, that's not the point. The point is that when you travel overseas and you're living overseas, what you are being exposed to, especially when you go to a country where they have four season, you're exposed to change of weather.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:19:00 to 00:19:11

When there's a change of weather, there's a change of mood. Right. I didn't know that. Winter is a very tough time to stay. Yeah.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:19:11 to 00:19:35

And you need a lot of emotional support and the coping mechanism just to cope with winter. And then suddenly you need to change to a different season. You need to change again to autumn, spring and summer. Right. So the change of season is a change of our ability to cope with the surrounding. And what does that mean?

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:19:35 to 00:19:58

That means that our generative model is only believing in what you are thinking. But when you go to a different environment you actually update your belief system. So now that my daughter came back after one year, I'm very convinced that overseas is very good. Okay. But if you ask me ten years ago, I would say no.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:19:58 to 00:20:14

Okay, right. So I have changed. Okay, right. So I thought every young people, if you get opportunity to work outside of your comfort zone, please go. Okay.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:20:14 to 00:20:49

And when you go, please don't do the expatriate way, do the local way because you want to interact with the people, with the culture and learn the way that they do. And then what are you building is what I call the empathy of interacting with the people. So that you actually update your belief system and become more open minded and also I say social quotient as well. Right. The way that you interact with different countries. In different kind of context. 

Daphne (Host) | 00:20:49 to 00:21:12

Yes. And earlier in the introduction, I also briefly mentioned that you have led quite large teams of up to 50 in size. What has been one of the most interesting or maybe your personal leadership philosophy in driving high impact teams?

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:21:14 to 00:21:58

So let me explain the group of people that I have led over the years. The bigger group that I led is actually more operation people. They're based in China, based in India, based in Singapore, Malaysia, and they're operation people. And the difference here is that you don't get to see them face to face as often and hence it's not like in Singapore, right. In the old days when you get everybody come in the morning and then do a stand up meeting guys, okay, today this is what we're going to do and see face to face and everybody stay in the office and that kind of leadership they can see in action.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:21:58 to 00:22:21

Yes, but when you are managing a big group in a diverse country location, it's a bit different. And I also learned through the process. So you asked me what kind of leadership style or how do I manage? I would say that through the years I learned I'll call it ABCDE of leadership. Okay, so let me explain ABCDE.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:22:21 to 00:22:49

A is authentic leadership. Okay? I think the best leadership is you actually be real, be genuine to the people, share your thoughts and genuine care for the person and that will bring you a long time. Right. Even you don't meet each other, they know that you care for them.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:22:49 to 00:23:01

So authenticity is very important. B belief. You need to believe in them. Sometimes we are very judgmental. We look at some people say I think you cannot make it.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:23:01 to 00:23:29

And once you have that in mind, the person won't make it, right? Because you already cast in stone, this person cannot make it. So you need to believe in them. Sometimes it's not they didn't perform it's because the job didn't fit them. So as a leader, you need to find out, how can we help this person to perform or to find the right job fit or coach them.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:23:29 to 00:23:41

As I said, coaching or training them. Right. C is communication. I think a good leader need to communicate. And communicate is a wide topic, right?

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:23:41 to 00:23:57

Yes. And now I look at communication differently. Also in the past, I look at communication is that you need to tell. Now I look at communication is I need to listen. Yeah.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:23:57 to 00:24:05

Goes both ways. Go both ways. Right. And I said when they communicate, when they connect you correct.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:24:08 to 00:24:25

And D is decision making. As a leader, you need to make decision. You cannot sit on the fence. Decision to say no. Decision to say yes because people are waiting for you for direction and you just can't take too long.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:24:25 to 00:24:30

Right? Correct. So D is important. Yeah. E is energy.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:24:31 to 00:24:52

Okay. And I like this energy because I always impress by managers that have a lot of energy. And it's very infectious. When you see a manager have a lot of energy, you won't be sian. I don't come to work because my manager also likes and energy comes from where?

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:24:52 to 00:25:00

Energy comes from the passion in the work. Right. If you have no passion in the world, there's no energy. That's right. Energy also comes from mental and physical fitness.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:25:00 to 00:25:21

So you need to actually refresh. You need to clear out your mind. You need to be physically fit. Go for a walk, go for yoga, go for a run, go for a swim, whatever you want to do, just have the energy. And by the way, just to conclude this, is that our business in IT is a very fast paced business.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:25:21 to 00:25:29

Yes, that's right. And it's energy sucking. So what do you do? It's energy sucking. Try to replenish energy. So you need to replenish, refresh, renew. So that's very important. 

Daphne (Host) | 00:25:30 to 00:25:53

Okay. And maybe just the last question in the English segment of today's interview, I just want to briefly touch on your other role in terms of learning and development as an expert there, facilitating workshops. How do you combine your experiences in learning and development?

Daphne (Host) | 00:25:53 to 00:26:15

Or how do you see that complementing your main role across different fields, like sales, tech consulting, strategic management? How do you see them complementing each other? 

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:26:15 to 00:27:03

Awesome. Before that, I answer that question. First, let me explain why am I so passionate about L&D and my journey on L&D very quickly before I touch on this point. And I believe there's a lot of things for us to learn, whether in personal space or from a professional space. And that got to do with my interaction in my own personal outside of work, because I spent almost 30 years in the place where I stay in the grassroots organization. So I'm actually helping in the residential what's it called resident committee in the place I stay. And through many, many years, I have really understand that the way for us to improve ourselves is to continue learning.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:27:03 to 00:27:33

Continuous learning is something that I have deep with me and hence, when my kids go to school, in order for me to learn their journey, I joined the parent support group. Okay. So I was in parent support group committee for many years until I became the chairman of my kids school for many years. When I moved to the secondary school, I'm also in the parents support group. Okay.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:27:33 to 00:27:43

So I want to learn their journey in their school. Yes. So this learning mindset is always with me. So when I start work, I never stop learning. So I'm always learning.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:27:43 to 00:28:04

Even right now, I'm actually learning a master program on L&D. As well. Okay, so to your point, the L&D journey and how is that important in a workplace applied to business?

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:28:04 to 00:28:16

I think that is really important. And my belief is that everybody can only do a good job when they are competent. Okay. Right. Yeah.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:28:16 to 00:28:25

And to improve their competency, they need to actually learn. Yeah. I think you touched on that earlier in your skills. Yeah. So that's really important.

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:28:26 to 00:28:41

Correct. So that's why I always ask someone, is there a gap in the way that they do their thing and the skill that they have? Correct. And that's why I think L&D

Daphne (Host) | 00:28:41 to 00:29:11

 Okay, very nice. And I think with that, we conclude the English segment of today's interview. We'll now move on to the Chinese rapid fire questions. 那我们现在就进行快问快答的环节。那Jimmy你准备好了吗？ 首先能用中文介绍一下自己吗？

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:29:15 to 00:29:16

大家好我叫 Jimmy, 我中文名叫王锦源，锦绣的锦，桃源的源。很高兴今天上这个节目。

Daphne (Host) | 00:29:20 to 00:29:22

我们也很高兴你参加我们的节目，跟我们分享了很多你的经验。我本身学到了很多。

Daphne (Host) | 00:29:26 to 00:29:31

那如果你在经历了漫长的一天之后，你最喜欢放松自己的方式是什么？

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:29:33 to 00:30:15

我最喜欢的是冥想，冥想叫 Mindfulness。其实一天过后我就想做的就是找一个山洞，这个山洞是没有人可以打扰我的。所以我跟我太太讲说，我需要找山洞，她就明白了。说不要打搅我，你要去多久，两个小时，我就失踪了。

Daphne (Host) | 00:30:17 to 00:30:33

那之前和你聊到，你本身就是说对中文这个语言很感兴趣，那能够分享一下为什么是这个原因吗？

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:30:35 to 00:31:25

首先我生在一个讲中文的家，原生家庭，然后我父母亲都是讲中文，还有讲福建话，我是福建人。所以我的环境就是讲中文的。所以我接触中文的机会很多。当然从小我喜欢看中文书嘛，所以小六之前我已经读完所有金庸的小说。你读过吗？我本身没有。然后我不止读金庸，还有读亦舒的小说，我读很多，反正我读很多中文书，然后我对中文很大的兴趣。我还非常自豪的在小时候，常常是作文比赛的冠军。是小时候的事情，而且我小时候也讲相声。

Daphne (Host) | 00:31:29 to 00:31:31

那个我也有讲。

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:31:34 to 00:32:09

然后因为基于这样的原因，来到中学之后我就非常喜欢，那时候我们流行新谣，所以我也是有写歌，然后我参加新谣营。那时候我们的老师是梁文福跟巫启贤。梁文福是我的老师，然后我在上新谣营的时候。然后我从小的志愿就是要当一个广播员，所以我就上了一个电台的广播员的课程。大概六个月的课程。

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:32:12 to 00:32:35

其实我也是一个曾经学过广播，认证。那今天就是太适合你了。我只是讲说我对中文的兴趣很大，就非常喜欢。这也影响了我之后对我孩子的一些期望。那中文并不是说它的语言的好的地方，我是喜欢他的一些思想，他的一些价值观。我非常崇向儒家思想，也非常崇向一些庄子或老子的哲学观念。所以基于这价值观，所以我非常喜欢中文。而且我有一个非常，我孩子都知道的一个价值观，就是饮水思源。刚好“源”也是我的名字。

Daphne (Host) | 00:32:36 to 00:32:49

我私人挺好奇的问题是，你最喜欢的新谣歌曲是哪一个？

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:32:50 to 00:33:10

很多很多。但是我喜欢细水长流，我喜欢梁文福的歌。我最喜欢的一首歌叫做历史考试前夕。不懂你有没有听过。

Daphne (Host) | 00:33:15 to 00:33:21

有。

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:33:24 to 00:33:33

啊，真的啊？因为我本身也是挺喜欢新谣歌曲的。

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:33:35 to 00:33:45

我还喜欢唱歌，然后以前唱新谣嘛，所以这首我非常喜欢。因为这首用历史来传述一些文化，一些价值，而且朗朗上口。

Daphne (Host) | 00:33:45 to 00:34:17

就是针对于想要之后会在，管理国际化团队（的人）来说，你对他们有什么劝告吗？

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:34:21 to 00:36:50

其实我觉得每个人如果要管理人的话，要领导团队的话，首先要具备的是自身的醒觉，我们叫“awareness”。自己要非常，很醒觉，自己的情绪，管理好自己的情绪，管理好自己的想法，跟你的行动。那要通过怎样的方法，就要自己常常做一些我们叫做“reflection”。之后呢，你才能够管理别人。因为你不能管理自己，怎么能管理别人。所以我非常鼓励要管理团队的人先管好自己。那如果你管理是跨国的话，那更重要，因为你已经跨到其他的文化，跟价值观。然后你要更加清楚的明白他们的想法，他们之间的一些差异。西方人和中方人不一样，我举例。在亚洲这边，最重要的是信任。那信任的基础在于人与人之间的交往和交流。那西方人的信任，西方的信任跟东方的信任不一样。当你跟西方人交往的时候，因为是一个国际化的环境里面，西方人是先信任你，然后再慢慢的不信任你。东方人是不信任你，再慢慢的信任你。他的出发点不一样。那挺重要的。所以你看我刚提到跟中国人交往的时候，他们是不信任你，到慢慢信任你。但是（这有）什么好处呢？当他信任你之后呢，就简单多了。那西方人慢慢的不信任你，就复杂多了。所以我有一句话，叫做，有关系就什么都没关系。没关系，就什么都有关系。

Daphne (Host) | 00:36:52 to 00:38:43

那最后一道问题就是，在你的职业生涯当中，你曾经遇到一个最重要的导师是谁呢？

Jimmy (Guest) | 00:38:44 to 00:39:49

我有很多人生导师，今天我也在 LinkedIn 发了一个短文，我也是感同身受。因为我孩子，我刚才私下和你提到我孩子刚刚回去瑞典，然后我就说，读万卷书，不如行万里路。行万里路，不如名师指路。名师就是 mentor，不是老师。那我生活的导师跟我工作的导师不一样。我工作的导师刚刚恰巧从 HP 卸职，然后到，他现在是新电信的首席执行官，叫 TC。我就是在东南亚的时候，他就是我的经理，叫 Tian Chong。然后我向他学习到很多，他给我一句名言，我用英文讲，会比较贴切它叫做 “Plan your work, work your plan. Your plan will work." 你重复一下。所以我想学习到说，其实我们需要对人生的一种规划。当然不是每件事都是能够完美。但是至少说如果你根据你的计划执行的话，百分之八十是可以得到你所要得到的。

Daphne (Host) | 00:39:49 to 00:40:14

太好了，就今天跟你学到了很多名言。那今天的播客就到此为止。非常感谢 Jimmy 你今天抽空和我们分享你人生的经验，也是在职业当中的不同的领域的分享和经验。非常感谢你今天抽空和我们分享。 Thank you so much Jimmy for taking time for today's podcast. We learned a lot from today's episode. I think there are a lot of famous words and phrases that you have shared that I personally think it's something that can guide the I think about managing teams going forward, and I'm sure with the audience as well, they will have learned a lot. Especially, I think most memorable for me was the ABCDE of leadership. Definitely something that I would remember quite fondly. Thank you so much.

Daphne (Host) | 00:40:14 to 00:40:15

Thank you, Jimmy.