Building Relationships in International Markets: Insights from Jason Tay, Head of BD at M-DAQ Global

In this episode, we are joined by Jason Tay, Head of Business Development and Government Relations at M-DAQ Global. In these roles, Jason spearheads senior C-level dialogues, as well as dialogues with local, state, and legislative bodies as well as government agencies to cultivate essential relationships with key stakeholders, propelling the company’s sales growth and business interests.

Jason is also a strategic advisor to a stealth mode crypto project, contributing his expertise to the cutting-age world of cryptocurrency. He is also a business mentor for the Singapore Leaders Network, as well as an esteemed lecturer at SMU Academy, delivering courses on topics like the Web 3.0 economy, Metaverse, NFTs, Gamefi and more.

In this episode, we discuss:

• The evolution of Jason’s role at MDAQ Global and leveraging government connections. 
• The importance of understanding and managing different stakeholders, including CEOs, CFOs, and media.
• The significance of cultural nuances in relationship building, using examples from Japanese and Korean clients. 
• Overcoming language barriers and the importance of sincerity and respect in building trust with clients. 
• Jason’s philosophy in maintaining client relationships, focusing on trust and becoming a trusted partner. 

Join us for this insightful conversation as we learn from Jason's experiences and gain valuable insights into building successful relationships in the FinTech industry across diverse cultures.

The views and opinions expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not reflect those of any affiliated organizations or entities.

Links:

Bluente's Website: https://www.bluente.com/

Jason’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tayjason/

Our Socials: @bluente.official (Instagram and Tik Tok)

Transcript

Podcast: Business Beyond Borders - A Podcast By Bluente

Episode Title: Jason

Host(s): Daphne

Guest(s): Jason

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Daphne (Host) | 00:00:00 to 00:00:43

Welcome to another episode of Business Beyond Borders. Today we're very excited to have with us Jason Tay who is currently the Head of Business Development and Head of Government Relations at a Singapore headquartered Fintech firm, MDAQ Global. Jason Spear heads senior C suite dialogues with his clients as well as dialogues with local, state and legislative bodies and government agencies to drive and cultivate critical client relationships to drive both sales growth as well as business interest. Prior to joining the Fintech scene, Jason was also a corporate investment banker for almost twelve years across three different global banks. Building and maintaining strong client relationships is at the core of what Jason loves to do and we'll love to dive in more.

Daphne (Host) | 00:00:43 to 00:01:03

To learn more in a short bit. Today, Jason is also a mentor with the Singapore Leaders Network and he is also an adjunct lecturer at the Singapore Management University, teaching courses across Metaverse, NFTs, web Three and many more. Welcome Jason, to today's episode. Thank you for having me. Yeah, maybe let's kick off by understanding more about your current role at MDAQ Global. Could you share with us more about that? 

Jason (Guest) | 00:01:03 to 00:01:21

Sure. So I am currently the Head of Business development and Head of Government Relations in MDAQ Global. So if I were to share a bit more of the background when I joined the firm, that was not what I signed up for. The role kind of transformed as we went along.

Jason (Guest) | 00:01:21 to 00:02:03

As you know, Fintechs generally there's a lot of changes, right? In a good way. And I believe along the way I was given a lot of opportunities to step up the game and to grow the team, our engagements, our grants, our policy making and sharing of ideas. So that's how I got to touch the government, the G side, as well as the federations and the associations. So as I went along with my expansion and plans to grow the company and our sales, I realized that that was how I could leverage on non-conventional methods.

Jason (Guest) | 00:02:03 to 00:02:35

Because if you think about sales, you always think about just calling or maybe reaching someone on the internet. But I realized that if you are a Fintech in Singapore and you're trying to really go global, it's also very useful to leverage on the government links and also platforms and associations which really kind of establish themselves and then when they bring you in, you kind of skip 17 steps. So that to me is really core to something I've been really building over the past four years with the firm. 

Daphne (Host) | 00:02:35 to 00:02:48

Okay, very nice. And also maybe share with us who are the typical type of stakeholders that you manage? I think you mentioned the G side quite a bit. And then beyond that, what kind of clients do you typically deal with? 

Jason (Guest) | 00:02:50 to 00:03:12

The first, most important stakeholder is obviously my boss. But of course I think the other thing is also as someone who looks at it from a management perspective. It's also important to see stakeholders as internal stakeholders. I always feel that my entire career in banking or Fintech, we always think that we are always outward facing. Right. Actually, half of the battle is inward-facing.

Jason (Guest) | 00:03:12 to 00:03:44

People that you work with, your product, your compliance, your legal, your admin, your middle office, your treasury, your risk, all them are crucial because they are the building blocks to make the deal happen. Correct. And in Fintechs in general, sometimes you don't have a full-fledged product. You have something that fits probably about 70% of the ask, but you know that you need that additional 30%, which comes from either client input or support from your internal stakeholders to build that 30%. Yeah.

Jason (Guest) | 00:03:44 to 00:04:16

So I think that is where to me, my most native stakeholders are internal. Then externally to the clients, I would think I work with the likes of the CEOs, CFOs, Chief Information Officers, the financial controllers, or even people who are involved in partnerships. So those are the people that I work with on the client side. Right. And also with the media, with the federations and associations side. We work with leaders who are trying to help the industry grow together.

Jason (Guest) | 00:04:16 to 00:04:46

So I work with secretary generals, people who are presidents, and leaders that help the entire economy grow together. So it's quite a wide spectrum of people. And I'm very grateful because it gives you a different perspective of how to engage. Correct. With different people language, cultures, and also backgrounds of people that you work with. So, to me, that is really, in a very simple nutshell, that kind of people that I engage with.

Daphne (Host) | 00:04:46 to 00:05:06

Okay, very nice. And how does your approach typically differ based on the kind of background or cultures that they are from? 

Jason (Guest) | 00:05:06 to 00:05:17

Okay, so I tend to try and do a bit of research before I meet the person. Right. And I try and think about three things which the person has in common with me. Okay. And then I think about three things that I should not touch on. Okay. And it's important because sometimes you can do a very good conversation for 30 minutes, right? Yeah.

Jason (Guest) | 00:05:17 to 00:05:29

Then you accidentally say something that you should not. Okay. You just kind of wash over the 30 minutes of time. There's always this saying, you only have one chance at a first impression. You only got one chance.

Jason (Guest) | 00:05:29 to 00:05:46

That's why it's called a first impression. Not a second impression. So to me, you do as much homework as you can and you go into a conversation, meeting someone for the first time, and you try and somehow really form a notion of that person in your mind. So that's number one. I think number two.

Jason (Guest) | 00:05:46 to 00:06:09

Also as you speak to the person, you also try and build rapport. Okay. So one way, of course, I mentioned earlier is to know, are there any common things? But more importantly, I think the rapport comes in when people kind of feel that you care about who they are as a person. There's always this very important saying that goes like people only care how much you know when they know how much you care.

Jason (Guest) | 00:06:09 to 00:06:26

Right. So I always believe in that. A lot of times my friendships and my client engagements have been forged on that basis. That if this guy Jason here doesn't even know who I am, what I like, what I do, who represents me, I have so many people talk to every day, why should I even talk to you? Correct.

Jason (Guest) | 00:06:26 to 00:06:50

So that's something I learned during my banking days and also in Fintech, where I feel that if you can just be that 1% differentiator, people tend to kind of gravitate towards you because they feel that this person at least listens to us. Correct. So that's what I do. 

Daphne (Host) | 00:06:50 to 00:07:11

Very nice. And I think in your current role, we also understand that you've also led partnerships across different regions from North America to Europe to even Southeast Asia here in this region. What are some of the cultural nuances and differences that you've observed? I think earlier you've also alluded to cultural differences in building relationships. So what are some of these cultural differences that you have noticed? 

Jason (Guest) | 00:07:12 to 00:07:19

Cultural differences? So I would say that it's actually a very - even for us, we come from different backgrounds. Correct. Childhoods, our parents are different. We grew up in different places. The amount of time we travel from our home to office, also very different.

Jason (Guest) | 00:07:21 to 00:07:53

In that sense, even as Singaporeans, we will engage life in a different perspective. What more, someone who is across the border, someone who is 74,000 miles away from you. They come from a different background and their ancestors and their history of the country, all these things play a very important role to forming who they are. That's right. So I would say that when I was in banking, when I was in one of the banks, JP. Morgan, to be exact, I was surrounded by six bosses.

Jason (Guest) | 00:07:53 to 00:08:12

And they're all different nationalities. I can remember. One Thai, one Singaporean, one Indian, one Australian, one Japanese, one Korean. So, you know, when they pick up the phone and they speak in their local language. And I was in the center of this whole marketplace.

Jason (Guest) | 00:08:12 to 00:08:41

But you absorb all these accents and all these cultures, and it was very eye-opening for me because I grew up in Singapore, I hardly had the chance to travel overseas for school. So when I had to see all these amazing people interact, that taught me a lot about their cultures. Right. And I realized that a lot of times, again, to the point of people only care how much you know when they know how much you care. And if you don't respect someone's culture and by showing that you care, people are probably not taking you seriously.

Jason (Guest) | 00:08:42 to 00:09:13

You come in and you shake the wrong hand or you shake in the wrong way or you address someone in the wrong manner, that could have very big impact on how far you can go in the relationship. So I think culture wise, that's something that is very important to acknowledge and understand the nuances. I'll give you example. Japanese in general, when they say yes, it doesn't necessarily mean yes. It means I hear you, I heard you.

Jason (Guest) | 00:09:13 to 00:09:31

Right. But to an American, a yes means yes. He wants to do this deal. So I've been in meetings before where I had American colleague and a Japanese client, for example, and after the meeting, he left the meeting and he said, wow, this is a great meeting. Because the client said yes to everything.

Jason (Guest) | 00:09:32 to 00:09:49

And I was like, no, he didn't say yes to anything. And that was when he was like, how can it be? The guy was nodding the whole time. First and foremost, the person who's talking is not the one with the power. The guy who is not talking at the corner with the white hair, that's the guy that you should be talking to.

Jason (Guest) | 00:09:49 to 00:10:02

You're talking to the wrong guy. This is a junior guy who speaks better English than his boss. Yes. So all these nuances in just that episode alone, right? You can imagine how disastrous things can be.

Jason (Guest) | 00:10:02 to 00:10:21

And also, if you can master it in a certain way, you can actually up your game so much faster. Correct. And forge that first impression in the best way possible. Right. And I think that is one side of the answer. The other side of the answer is that I've also known that in places we all speak different languages, cultures.

Jason (Guest) | 00:10:22 to 00:10:41

And one very important thing I noticed is that there's one thing that's universal, which is a smile. It doesn't matter whether you're from China, you're from Japan, you're from America, you're from anywhere in the world. If you smile, people get it, right? Have you seen someone smile and you'd be like that's not a smile? You're probably not from this Earth.

Jason (Guest) | 00:10:43 to 00:11:04

I think that at the same time, a universal language is a smile. And when you are in doubt about cultures, just smile. Okay? I mean, I don't think anyone can misinterpret a smile, unless you're smiling the whole day and then something's a bit wrong. But that is the flip side of the answer I thought I should share. 

Daphne (Host) | 00:11:04 to 00:11:29

Yeah, that's very interesting. And I believe you had also mentioned you have met with many different types of people. And I would love to know what's the most interesting business encounter that you have had. 

Jason (Guest) | 00:11:30 to 00:12:03

Most interesting business encounter I've had. So I think, wow, there are a lot of interesting encounters. I would say that this is maybe something more recent. Okay. Last year, in the middle of COVID in May 2022, I flew 74,000 km away from Singapore to Poland okay. To sign a deal with the Polish Warsaw Exchange, the Stock exchange of Warsaw, which is Poland's capital. And I never been to Poland, and this deal was a deal which I closed after 18 months of talking, which everyone thought is impossible. Why would you talk to someone in Poland? It's COVID.

Jason (Guest) | 00:12:03 to 00:12:20

You just do zoom meetings, I'm Chinese and Asian and these guys are all Polish. So culturally we are multiplying. Exactly. So when I preserve it and I won the deal, the client called me and said, hey, I would like to invite you over to sign the deal.

Jason (Guest) | 00:12:20 to 00:12:44

I said what? I couldn't believe myself, what more my CEO. So when I went to Poland to sign the deal, the day before I went to Poland to sign the deal, I arrived earlier. So I went to this I make it a point to try and travel to a museum of a country to understand the culture. So I went to this very famous museum called the Warsaw Uprising Museum.

Jason (Guest) | 00:12:45 to 00:13:22

And I'll explain to you why that's important, because when I was in the Warsaw Museum, I looked at Warsaw's history, Poland's history, and I found out that in 1944, during World War II, Nazi Germany actually invaded Poland. Right. And Warsaw, which is the capital of Warsaw, 80, 90% of land in Warsaw was pummelled to white powder, like artillery and bombing. And literally imagine yourself in 1944 in Poland. You stand on a hill and you look across, all you see is white because everything is level flat.

Jason (Guest) | 00:13:22 to 00:13:40

Can you imagine? Yes. The whole country level flat. And more than I think, 25% of the population was wiped out in just a matter of a year. And that was because of the war that happened. So I was very taken by that incident.

Jason (Guest) | 00:13:41 to 00:14:05

And actually, when I left the museum, I bought this little collar pin, which is a symbol of the uprising resistance that they had. And next day when I went to the client meeting, I pinned it on my suit, beside my company tag. And I was meeting the chairlady of the Warsaw Exchange, who obviously grew up during that time. Yes. And I met her in person.

Jason (Guest) | 00:14:05 to 00:14:21

She's a very important person. And she was going to greet me and my CEO. So I greeted her. And the first thing I noticed was that she greeted and she looked at this pin and immediately she smiled and she said, so you've been to our museum? And I said yes.

Jason (Guest) | 00:14:21 to 00:14:37

I did. And I appreciate what the people of Poland have done to defend their country. It means so much because little did you know, in 1941, Singapore got invaded by the Japanese. Yeah, that's right. So we kind of went through a little similar situation.

Jason (Guest) | 00:14:37 to 00:14:56

But I appreciated the fact that Warsaw had its own unique background, history. And immediately it broke ice. The next 15 minutes or so we were talking, it kind of felt as though she knew I knew her, I knew her culture. I knew that you went through a tough time and she was very open about sharing, about her own personal history. Correct.

Jason (Guest) | 00:14:56 to 00:15:26

Which I think if I did not wear that pin, I wasn't intentional. I just want to show respect that I've seen your history. So that is an example that led to a lot more collaboration and sometimes a pin speaks a thousand words. 

Daphne (Host) | 00:15:26 to 00:15:34

Yeah, no, I mean, that's really interesting. I mean, it really boils down to the details and also the kind of, in a sense, a dedication that you have to really understand the stakeholders that you're working with. And I think it shows through the little actions that you're doing, maybe we wind back time a little to your investment banking days. Okay. It was a blur, never sleep much.

Daphne (Host) | 00:15:37 to 00:15:53

Yeah. But I understand that you had clients in both Japan and Korea that you had to work together with and wanted to learn a bit more about those experiences. What were some key learnings that you have had. Key learnings about Japanese and Koreans.

Jason (Guest) | 00:15:53 to 00:16:25

Yeah, working together with them, especially from, I guess, investment banking perspective. M*A. Okay, so if I may clarify my time in the bank, I was mainly in corporate banking, but it's just that many banks, the corporate bank is part of the investment bank. So we cover the client relationships from anything from investment banking, M&A, DCM, ECM, all the way down to cash management, foreign exchange, asset management, trade finance, project finance, the list goes on. But you have to know everything because when you talk to the CEO, he expects you to advise him on all these members.

Jason (Guest) | 00:16:25 to 00:16:59

That's right. Japanese and Korean clients in general, I would say the Japanese have a very strong cultural image that today, if you go to any businessman who is international, they can tell you that you need to handle the Japanese clients in a certain way. Not because of the fact that you think that they are unique, but it's just appreciation. And I think as a young banker, when I started my career, I made a couple of stupid mistakes. I'm happy to share them.

Jason (Guest) | 00:16:59 to 00:17:28

And that's how I got to know, because when I was a young banker, the only thing I knew about Japan was ramen and sushi and sakae sushi and stupid stuff. I watched a lot of anime, which is the Japanese cartoons. Yes. And being very immature then I assumed that whatever the Japanese anime character was saying in Japanese, and looking at the English subtitle would be a direct one-for-one translation.

Jason (Guest) | 00:17:28 to 00:17:43

Okay. So I'll show you this very funny example. For those of the Japanese fans out there, definitely know how stupid it will be. I can tell you this is hilarious. I remember that there was one important meeting where I was going to meet a very important client to offer our proposal.

Jason (Guest) | 00:17:43 to 00:18:11

Okay. Night before, I was watching a Japanese anime called Bleach. Bleach. One of the top ones in the world. And doesn't matter what the story is about, there was this scene whereby this very powerful enemy was speaking to the protagonist of the show, and the good guy was trying to beat the bad guy, but he had a hard time. As usual. And the bad guy was like, you're wasting a lot of my time.

Jason (Guest) | 00:18:11 to 00:18:23

Yes. Let me show you. Let me show you my power. So he said something in Japanese, and the word I saw was, Let me show you. Okay.

Jason (Guest) | 00:18:23 to 00:18:32

I was like, wow, very grand. Let me show you. He said, Let me show you. And then there's a lot of nice music, then a lot of flashes. Wow. I was very impressed.

Jason (Guest) | 00:18:32 to 00:18:42

Wow. Let me show you. And in Japanese, it says misete yaru. Misete yaru, which is to show you. And the next day, I went to a client meeting, and I was with my Japanese boss.

Jason (Guest) | 00:18:42 to 00:18:56

And my Japanese boss is like, okay, Jason, it's time. Let's show our proposal. So I looked at the Japanese senior management, all them very old, and the clients were opposite the aisle. And I said, whoa. Okay.

Jason (Guest) | 00:18:56 to 00:19:06

Alright. It's time to show them how good I am in Japanese. So I said misete yaru, right? Which everyone gave me the very big eyes. I'd never seen Japanese eyes so big before.

Jason (Guest) | 00:19:06 to 00:19:17

They're all like, what? And I was like, what? And then my boss was like, what? No, it was like a very bad horror movie. And then I realized, my Japanese boss said, no, you cannot say this.

Jason (Guest) | 00:19:17 to 00:19:38

I said what? I mean, I just learned it last night from Bleach. And when I said that, everyone started laughing, right? Because Japanese, there are different meanings and tonalities. And the way even though it said, Let me show you, it was said in a way, in a Japanese form, that men, you know senior guys, with a very junior guy who was a piece of crap and saying that you are so sucky.

Jason (Guest) | 00:19:38 to 00:19:51

Let me show you. So here I was as a man, going to a Japanese senior guy and saying, let me show you our pricing. Huh, let me show you. So you can imagine the environment. But I learned from the experience that, oh, okay.

Jason (Guest) | 00:19:51 to 00:20:12

Japanese language has different tones and different underlying meanings. A Japanese man would use a certain word. A Japanese woman would use another word, right? They mean the same thing, but you will not use the Japanese male will not use the same word that a Japanese female would, which is mind blown. So these are things that I picked up along the way.

Jason (Guest) | 00:20:12 to 00:20:27

And I'm not saying that I'm a good Japanese speaker now, but I know certain things, like definitely not to say misete yaru to clients. Yeah, we also take note of that. Yeah, you see. And don't take one for one direct translation. Don't be like me. Don't be like me.

Jason (Guest) | 00:20:28 to 00:21:01

And I think that's Japan, I think it's a very hierarchical, culture, environment. So when you talk to the bosses and the senior management. You know Plato once said that wise men speak because they have something to say. And fools speak because they want to say something. It's very different. So in Japanese cultures in general, I would say that the senior guy, the most senior person, sometimes is the one that you need to influence, but he or she may not be comfortable speaking in your native tongue.

Jason (Guest) | 00:21:01 to 00:21:16

Right. And how then do you then get the message across without showing too much of a boastful or I need to be the king of the jungle thing. You need to give them space, but you need to be respectful. How do you bow? How do you shake hands?

Jason (Guest) | 00:21:16 to 00:21:24

Who do you shake hands? Who speaks first? Who do you introduce first? Who sits where? All these things have a very profound impact on business in Japan.

Jason (Guest) | 00:21:24 to 00:21:59

In Korea, I would say it's almost somewhat similar, the culture of seniority, someone who is more senior than your 学长 or your 长辈. And you need to show respect and also know when to speak. Don't just babble. And then you may feel like you have a lot of things to say, but ultimately, did your message get through to the other side? So I think Japan and Korea are very much designed this way, so be very careful about how you present yourself in front of clients.

Jason (Guest) | 00:22:00 to 00:22:19

Less is more sometimes. And it's important to also be aware of the cultural, like I mentioned earlier, the backgrounds, right? How the society is forged, what are the social fabric issues, and how even gender is being treated in the boardroom. So I just think these are very important points that I learned along the way. 

Daphne (Host) | 00:22:19 to 00:22:49

Okay. And just now you also mentioned that there was times where you had to deal with maybe more senior stakeholders, and then in those cases, they may not be very comfortable speaking English. So you might have to find ways to bridge that native language gap. What tips or advice do you have for people who are trying to do so. 

Jason (Guest) | 00:22:49 to 00:22:53

When the language there's a bit of language barrier. So I think the first thing that you should not do is go into break out into what I call sign language mode. I mean we've all seen that. You watch movies, and they'll go like you you you what.

Jason (Guest) | 00:22:58 to 00:23:11

It's very stupid, number one. And number two, it's very disrespectful. So I know you're trying to get your message across, but it's not about how much you say. It's not about what you say. It's how you say it.

Jason (Guest) | 00:23:11 to 00:23:36

Right? And sincerity is one of those things whereby you don't really have to influence someone just by being loud or soft. It's really about letting the other counterparty know that I'm here for you. I'm here to listen. I'm here to make sure that whatever you want and whatever you hope to get, I will do my best to get it done for you.

Jason (Guest) | 00:23:36 to 00:24:01

And speak slowly. Not too slow, of course, but slowly to make sure that you get the point across. If there is someone that who can be an intermediary between you and the senior client, that'll be best, especially if someone who can speak Japanese on your side, or even on his side, or someone you can relay a message and say, I would like to share this view. It's very simple.

Jason (Guest) | 00:24:01 to 00:24:26

The details are here in the document, but I want to be here today to show our sincerity. And would that be okay? I mean, naturally you would say it's okay, but then how do you then make sure that the meeting is succinct enough? And if, like I said, do research. What does the senior guy want? If his focus is not on pricing, his focus is more on your legacy, your history, how long have you been doing this?

Jason (Guest) | 00:24:26 to 00:24:51

And he's someone that has a certain penchant for that, then I would think in that two minutes or three minutes, when you're speaking to him, just focus on that point. Okay. We have been around for 150 years. We work with the likes of company A, B, and C, which are, I understand, are some of the top names in Japan, and we would love to be able to do the same for you. If you can give us this chance.

Jason (Guest) | 00:24:51 to 00:25:10

Something simple, nothing too complicated, then you may show some slideshows or something like that. But importantly, really kind of getting the sincerity across. Don't be too boastful. And then follow up after that with the associates and say, how do you find what did this person say? Do you think anything I should do more?

Jason (Guest) | 00:25:10 to 00:25:28

And then try and do more informal catch ups. Because in a formal environment, the very important thing about Japanese and Korean culture, which I've noticed, is it's not really about what they're trying to show you on the other side of that table. It's what they're trying to show to their own guys. Okay. You see?

Jason (Guest) | 00:25:28 to 00:25:50

So it's kind of like a double show. I cannot laugh too loudly because I look like an idiot in front of my guy. So I need to also pace myself. So he, as a senior person, is also trying to say, I need to upkeep this image. But if you are having an informal lunch or maybe a coffee or a drink, that changes everything, because now he's with you, he can feel a bit more vulnerable.

Jason (Guest) | 00:25:51 to 00:26:05

He doesn't worry about, what if my junior guy looks at me and say, this guy he's a, you know different personality. So there always is that. Right time, right place, right avenue. Okay. And I think if you can master that, that will help get the message across.

Daphne (Host) | 00:26:06 to 00:26:21

Yeah. And people always say that investment banking or corporate banking is quite a rigorous job. So what do you think are some of the qualities that you possess that help you to get to the twelve years that you were in banking? 

Jason (Guest) | 00:26:22 to 00:26:47

Definitely don't watch too much anime. Don't assume you know everything. I think the qualities are if you happen to be one of those human beings that can live on less sleep. Congratulations, you already passed the bar. I think banking in general, it's a pretty intensive job. You have days where you work literally maybe 18, 20 hours. And you have to juggle family, you juggle your career, you juggle your time with your friends.

Jason (Guest) | 00:26:47 to 00:27:11

So in many times, you have to know how to give up, what to give up, when to give up. And to give you a sense, in pure investment banking, the attrition rate for first year analysts in investment banking is about close to 60%. So among ten people, six people will likely leave because they are either burnt out, they don't want to pursue this. They think that this is not what they want to go for, despite the pay. Right.

Jason (Guest) | 00:27:11 to 00:27:35

I mean, it's really one of the most best high paying jobs in the world. But it's also important to know that are you giving up something that is even more pricey? And it doesn't mean money, it can be your relationship with your loved one. Correct. Is it worth it if you have someone who is a family member that you need to take care of and by being too contributing to your job, you lose out on that part.

Jason (Guest) | 00:27:35 to 00:28:02

So I've seen a lot of cases, a lot of stories, a lot of personal friendships that through their own lives, I've seen how that has panned out. So there's no right or wrong answer, but it's really a case of knowing where your sacrifices and where, you know, you cannot negotiate. This is a non-negotiable thing. So I think it's number one. Number two, I think in terms of knowing how to engage your clients, it's a skill that gets better with time.

Jason (Guest) | 00:28:03 to 00:28:24

But it also helps that you have the right language, the right tools at hand to help you get along. Your partners, your colleagues, your product, your operations, your middle office, your compliance, your legal. These are elements within the bank that are there to help you. So don't just think that you are a silo person. You are not a Rambo.

Jason (Guest) | 00:28:24 to 00:28:54

You are one part a wheel, a cog in the wheel, and you need to be a team player. So I think it's very important. Team player mentality is very important because if you are a star performer in the bank and you just rely on yourself and you just keep going for the client engagements, but you kind of don't get your internal stakeholders aligned, you are bound to fail. 100% bound to fail. So don't just spend time on external.

Jason (Guest) | 00:28:54 to 00:29:02

Spend the same, if not slightly more time on internal. Okay. Yeah. So that's what I would say are the key attributes. 

Daphne (Host) | 00:29:02 to 00:29:18

Very nice. And I think also in your past deal experiences, there was one quite interesting one where you're called in by your bosses to actually close a deal and then you had to overhaul the original portfolio of two different portfolios. Not wrong. Could you share with us more about that. What was your experience like?

Jason (Guest) | 00:29:21 to 00:29:40

That was quite a life changing experience. So that was in my previous bank. I was in a French investment bank and I was given the opportunity back then to take over as the country banker for Thailand. So that was the first one that I did. I was asked to take over Thailand.

Jason (Guest) | 00:29:40 to 00:29:52

I was in Thailand. I'm going for shopping and Chatuchak and Bangkok. How do I know how to deal with the Thai, you know corporates? Because people speak Thai there right, no surprises.

Jason (Guest) | 00:29:52 to 00:30:12

So I was there to go to Thailand and take over the entire portfolio and work with some of the country's biggest state owned enterprises who are important clients. And all I had was how spicy I could take Tom Yam soup. And I was like, okay, that's all I know. I mean I can pronounce Suvarnabhumi.

Jason (Guest) | 00:30:12 to 00:30:37

That's about it. And my French boss told me, we need someone to take over the reins and I think you are the best person for the job. So I went in. The very first day, I remember very clearly the very first day I landed in Thailand for a business handover, was the very day that the Thai king passed away. So if you think about bad luck, there's no better luck than that.

Jason (Guest) | 00:30:38 to 00:31:13

And there I was in front of the Thai client and across the table there were the Thai senior management. And there I was on the bank side with a French boss, a Chinese guy and an Indian colleague who was my credit person and my French boss, if I may. In French in the French Accent he looked at the Thai people and he said, good morning, this is the bank. We are here to take over the relationship. And Jason, he's the relationship banker and he's going to be helping you.

Jason (Guest) | 00:31:13 to 00:31:42

And this is Vishnu, he's the collective person. And my name is Pascal and welcome to the French bank. And then I looked across the board and they're all Thai people and I kind of sensed that they didn't understand what he was saying because he got a very deep French accent. I'm doing my best to make it less French. And they were like looking at me and they said, okay, so you are Kuntai Mai, which is, are you Thai?

Jason (Guest) | 00:31:42 to 00:32:00

Are you Thai person? And my French boss looked at her and no, no, this is a misunderstanding, Jason is from Singapore, he's Chinese. And then the Thai person immediately said, okay, so no business for you. You know? So I Oh this is a great start. This is going to be great.

Jason (Guest) | 00:32:01 to 00:32:26

And then next thing I know, I was told that in a few hours time there was some internal news that the Thai king's passing will be announced on the airwaves. Right? So Thai client came to us and said, okay, it was nice to meet you, but I think you need to go to the hotel because the Thai king passed away. So I said, oh great, I just only got to meet you, and now I need to get out of the office. So that was the starting point.

Jason (Guest) | 00:32:26 to 00:32:46

And I told myself, you need to at least try and make an effort to learn the language. I told my French boss, I said, I would love to. I mean, if my French boss is reading this now, I still love you, Pascal. I asked him, can I go and learn the French Thai language? And he looked at me and he said, no, you have to learn the French first.

Jason (Guest) | 00:32:47 to 00:32:59

I said, I have to learn French first? I mean, the Thai people sometimes have difficulty understanding English. What more speaking French to them? That's going to kill my business. He said, but you are working for a French bank, so you should learn to speak French.

Jason (Guest) | 00:32:59 to 00:33:10

I said aw come on. Right? So in the end, what I did was that every time I went to the airport, I would take up my YouTube and I would just watch this free channel. Free you know because I'm cheap. Free channel called speak Thai with Kunmot.

Jason (Guest) | 00:33:10 to 00:33:23

And I will spend 45 minutes trying to learn some Thai simple phrases, and I'll use it in my business. Okay? I may sound funny, but I think the clients appreciate it, the sincerity. This Singapore Chinese guy is trying his best, right?

Jason (Guest) | 00:33:24 to 00:33:43

So, long story short, in 15 months, I doubled the revenue in Thailand. At the end of two years, I managed to close the largest capital structure advisory deal of $1.34 billion for Thailand's state-owned oil and gas company. Which was surprising because everybody was like, we don't have hardly anything in Thailand, right?

Jason (Guest) | 00:33:43 to 00:33:48

And who the hell is Jason Tay? I became like this guy.

Jason (Guest) | 00:33:50 to 00:34:31

That sounds wrong, but I would not dare to live up to that glory. But I think it was really the blessing of my clients and also sincerity that I tried to put forth the best I could. I couldn't compete with every single bank there, so I just focused on what I was good at and try and build that rapport and say, give me a chance. So that was Thailand, and then subsequently Indonesia came along because I think my French boss, the same guy that didn't allow me to learn Thai, he felt that they need to overhaul Indonesia too, because there were some relationship issues on the ground. And I said, I don't speak Indonesian.

Jason (Guest) | 00:34:31 to 00:34:50

I don't know Indonesia. So go and figure this out. And that's what I did. So I took over Indonesia and Thailand, and I also had my own portfolio of Singapore clients and regional MNC names. So it was very much four jobs in one role. I think I learned a lot during that time.

Daphne (Host) | 00:34:50 to 00:35:10

And fast forward back to time now. When you have recently joined MDAQ Global, what made you decide to make the move? Oh, what made me decide to make the move? Interestingly. MDAQ was my client, so I was very grateful to have this chance to actually service the CEO then who is my boss now.

Jason (Guest) | 00:35:11 to 00:35:48

And I recall after I did a deal for him, he was very kind to ask me to consider whether or not would you like to consider a role in the fintech industry. And then I said no, because I just joined the French bank then. In 2019 there was a bid by the MAS to launch the Digital Bank licenses, if you recall. And I think we were looking to go for that opportunity. And again I had the call from my CEO and we had a discussion and he said, you are covering Indonesia and Thailand.

Jason (Guest) | 00:35:49 to 00:36:25

These are two of the biggest markets in Southeast Asia by GDP and we would love to have someone like you help us sell that story, build the story. And that was also in line with that aspiration of the Digital Bank kind of journey. So I asked myself, I said, how often would the MAS launch digital bank licenses? And I thought if I could bring that experience into the world of fintech and help to grow something from bottom's up, which is what I did for Thailand, Indonesia anyway, why not give it a chance? So before I knew it, it's been four years and I'm very grateful for the time that I've had in this firm.

Daphne (Host) | 00:36:25 to 00:36:55

Okay. And maybe summing everything up. I mean, reflecting on your past experiences and current experiences, working with different clients, what kind of advice would you have in terms of what is your philosophy in terms of working, building and maintaining relationships with your clients? 

Jason (Guest) | 00:36:56 to 00:37:14

I think same thing, be sincere. Because I think if you go into a relationship and a client relationship and you try and try and be salesy, I use the word salesy, please buy my product, please buy my solution. Clients are aware. It's the same feeling that when you come out the MRT and you see someone from the insurance industry asking you, do you have enough insurance? I think most of us know what the common response will be. Sorry, don't disturb me. Some of you.

Jason (Guest) | 00:37:14 to 00:37:31

Some people don't even say anything. They just hold the blackface and then just walk away. But I think that everyone knows how it feels. Like no one likes the feeling of being sold, but people like the feeling of being able to buy. You see there's a difference.

Jason (Guest) | 00:37:31 to 00:37:59

I mean, ultimately the outcome is the same. But how do you then tweak that feeling that your customer ends up becoming someone that wants to buy something from you, wants to work with you? And the reason for that is because my personal opinion is because the trust is there that this person looks at you and say, Daphne, you are someone that I trust and you know what I want. We can work on something together which to our mutual benefit. And I think that's the best way forward.

Jason (Guest) | 00:37:59 to 00:38:35

Because if it's always one way, after a while it's going to be like if someone else comes along with the same product or the same solution, your client is going to go with that person. Correct. But what difference is there? Why should this person work with Daphne? And if you can be that differentiator, just that 1% differentiator, by being a better friend, a better advisor, a better guide, a better confidante, I think that's where you can really forge that great bond that will help you become a better person, a better management executive, a better leader, even.

Daphne (Host) | 00:38:36 to 00:38:45

Very nice. So, with that, we wrap up the English segment of today's episode. We'll now move on to the Chinese rapid fire questions? Okay, 我们现在就进入快问快答的环节，那你准备好了吗？多快？不会很快啦。可以啦，我尽量，我尽量。首先能不能用中文介绍一下自己呢？

Jason (Guest) | 00:39:09 to 00:39:34

我是 Jason，我现在在一间金融科技公司担任业务发展的职位，还有跟我们公司的外交，政府集团做主要的联系。那之前在12年前就已经在银行界里面当了不同的一些经济的一些职位。那整体来讲说，就是非常的荣幸能够今天参与这个谈话。

Daphne (Host) | 00:40:00 to 00:40:45

没有，我们就很荣幸你能加入。那你本身就是之前的工作经验当中，收到的最良好的一个建议会是什么？

Jason (Guest) | 00:40:47 to 00:41:16

最良好的建议？工作的经验。我觉得我说，有很多好的建议。如果拿一个例子来讲说，拿一点来讲说，就是说我觉得我们大家在生活上该走的路都不一样。因为开发点跟原点跟自己的背景，都来自不同的背景，如果是一直要盼望着别人的生活的过程或者是想要达到更优秀的一个程度的话，那一直以来就是会很惭愧，怎么能达不到跟邻居或者是朋友的之类的一些水准。那我觉得大家命只有一条，那就应该真正的去打拼，创造自己的路。

Daphne (Host) | 00:41:18 to 00:42:37

嗯好，那现在就问一些比较有趣的问题。你本身做过最冒险的东西会是什么？

Jason (Guest) | 00:42:54 to 00:43:34

最冒险的东西，我觉得这可能是在去年年，最近的最冒险的东西可能是在去年在泰国曼谷，有一个非常重要的一个客户的会议。那当时曼谷的交通你懂的，非常复杂，很多拥挤啊，堵塞啊之类的。那我就是讲说如果我搭个普通的德士的话，这过程可能需要至少一个钟头半的时间，因为拥挤吗，交通故障。那我没办法，就那事就决定搭一个摩托车的一个的那个交通方案。那就坐在一个摩托车上，搭着大衣啊，然后那个行李箱啊，就坐了一个差不多四十分钟的一个路程。还没带那个 helmet，还有穿着这个大衣，那是就觉得好像有点那个 007 的感觉，很冒险。可是在整个过程中，我觉得，哇这个其实挺危险的，因为那是保险都没买吗，连穿普通的那种保护的制服啊，这些都没有。那我觉得那40分钟可能是我这一生中做的最冒险的事情。而且到了时候我就讲，哇这个有点，我觉得不应该做的。对，幸好幸好幸好。所以最冒险的事情。

Daphne (Host) | 00:43:34 to 00:43:37

那最近给你留下最深刻印象的一本书或者是电影是什么？

Jason (Guest) | 00:43:40 to 00:44:59

我最近重读了一本英文的书，英文叫做 Tuesdays with Morrie，那中文版就是最后十四堂星期二的课，是描述这一个教授和他之前的一个前的学生的交往。因为这个教授不幸的在他的生命中患了一个非常恶毒的一个病情，那会在几个月的时辰就会不幸过世。那他在这十四堂课当中的每一个拜二就跟这位前学生就一起沟通，一起谈论生活的一些话题。那描述到这位教授就一直以来他的脑海里跟他的生活的过程中的一些，非常有趣，非常感人的一些经历。那我觉得如果从，自己做一个读者，可以从中学到非常深刻对于自己的生命有一些很好的一些回忆跟想法，是非常有趣的一本书。

Daphne (Host) | 00:45:00 to 00:45:29

好，那如果您能够穿越时空，然后到一个历史的时刻或时代去参观，你会选择哪一个时代？

Jason (Guest) | 00:45:36 to 00:45:43

其实我的那个梦想没这样扩大，可能是最近的，最近的可能是，我觉得如果能够看到新加坡，因为最近国庆日嘛，建国精神非常强。那我觉得如果能够经历过我们 1960 到 1965 年的时候，我们国家是1964年嘛，就是建立。那我觉得如果能够回到那个时候看到我们那时的总理，李光耀先生，他讲，就从那时候把我们国家建成到新加坡现在的程度，我觉得那时候是非常有趣的一阵子。因为我觉得前辈他们那时抛弃了，就是可能一生命中的一些历史啊，或者是家乡啊，来到新加坡就拼一条路出来。那我们那时也是马来西亚的一部分，那怎么从中找过在40年就建立成现在如今的程度，我觉得是非常有趣的一个过程。可是我们，那时我生我出生的时候到现在，看到的可能是比较荣幸的一个部分。那 1960年到 1980年那时候我觉得是非常独特的一个期间，如果能够回忆看到当时的情况，我觉得会比较更热情的去接受，去体谅我们现在的生命。

Daphne (Host) | 00:45:50 to 00:45:55

那这个环节就这样结束。那谢谢 Jason 今天抽空和我们分享你的经验，然后我对于你建立良好的客户关系是挺敬佩的。然后也是就是对于跟他们建立好关系的那个细心，然后你的拼搏的精神我相信大家能够和你学习很多。

Daphne (Host) | 00:46:04 to 00:46:24

Thank you, Jason, for joining us in today's episode. Very impressed and also inspired by your attitude towards building businesses and also how you manage and build relationships with your clients. Can definitely see why they would trust you for a long period of time. I hope so. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Jason (Guest) | 00:46:24 to 00:46:25

Yeah, thank you.