Profit with a Purpose: Investment Innovations with Dr. Victor Tay

In this episode of Business Beyond Borders, we chat with Dr. Victor Tay, an influential business figure leading three joint venture firms. Dr. Victor takes us through his day-to-day activities, which mainly involve assisting clients with mergers and acquisitions, as well as public listings. 

He also shares insights into his firms, RHT Consulting Asia, Stout, and Global Catalyst Advisory. Notably, Global Catalyst Advisory focuses on philanthropy and assisting organizations that support persons with special needs. 

In this episode, we discuss:

- Dr. Victor Tay's day-to-day activities in RHT Consulting Asia, Stout, and Global Catalyst Advisory

- Dr. Victor’s experiences working in the government and its impact on his perspective on sustainable business practices

- The importance of a diverse career path and mindset

- Cultural nuances in advising clients from different countries

- Growth opportunities in emerging markets

Don't miss out this episode. Tune in now!

Links:

Bluente's Website: https://www.bluente.com/

Dr. Victor’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/victortay/

Our Socials: @bluente.official (Instagram and Tik Tok)

Transcript

Daphne (Host) | 00:00:00 to 00:00:21

Welcome to another episode of Business Beyond Borders. Today. We're very excited to have with us Dr. Victor Tay, who is currently the CEO of Global Catalyst Advisory, who is also the Regional Managing Director of South Asia and also the group CEO of RHT Consulting Asia. Welcome Victor, to today's podcast.

Victor (Guest) | 00:00:21 to 00:00:35

Thanks for having me here. Yeah, thank you. The first question I'd like to kick off today's episode with is maybe could you tell us more about what you do on a day to day basis? You're holding three different hats, so would love to learn more about your day to day role. Yes.

Victor (Guest) | 00:00:35 to 00:00:57

Yeah. It looks like three firm, but actually they are quite contiguous. These are three joint ventures. I had firstly, that's the RHT Consulting Group Asia. So basically we are part of the law firm and we do anything that's outside of law. And many of the client issues are beyond law.

Victor (Guest) | 00:00:57 to 00:01:14

And most of the time client comes in and it comes with a problem. Right. And this could be at different stages of their company growth. They could be in startup and raising funds. It could be they are looking to regionalizing, internationalizing, globalizing, going to across continents.

Victor (Guest) | 00:01:14 to 00:01:35

Or at times they could be looking at merger and acquisitions. And if not, they're looking at public listing and therefore looking towards scaling market capitals, et cetera. So the RHT Consulting Asia actually helps to do one-stop from startup all the way down to public listing. Nice. Yeah.

Victor (Guest) | 00:01:35 to 00:02:12

And the RHT Consulting Asia actually has a MoU that we signed with Stout. Stout is headquartered in Chicago and in there we had about 20 over 28 offices present, with about 600 over 800 over professionals in investment banking, merger and acquisitions. Nice. So in there, notably, I think it looks at multinationals M&A. And with this as well, the MoU is signed with RHT Consulting Asia so that anything that cross out of Singapore and ASEAN so that's where they're able to take over and collaborate.

Victor (Guest) | 00:02:12 to 00:02:47

The last one is actually Global Catalyst Advisory. That by itself actually was established because we looked at it that consulting, investment banking, all these are very financially driven. But nonetheless, I think when it comes to businesses, I am very passionate that business is about contributing back to society. So we established Global Catalyst Advisory as a PPP, which means that you will be aligned to people, planet, profit. So it's not just making a financial revenue, but it's actually looking into how do we benefit people, how do we then in here balance all the planet resources?

Victor (Guest) | 00:02:47 to 00:03:14

And in here, notably, we help charity. We help the Association for Persons with Special Needs, we help in some of the non-governmental organizations, we help with even some of the government that came that we consulted were government of Myanmar, government of Thailand, various government across Middle East, Africa. Yes. Yeah. And the impact must be very extensive with that,

Daphne (Host) | 00:03:14 to 00:03:50

I also wanted to congratulate you for recently being awarded by APAC Insider as "The Most Influential Sustainable Business CEO in Southeast Asia 2023". What does that award mean to you? Thank you, thanks a lot. I guess we are very flattered and very privileged. The organization that award us is actually based in UK and I guess we were not so much presence in UK, although we are tied up with University of Oxford in that case. We looked at incubating startups and notably, I think I've been in the environmental space since 2005.

Victor (Guest) | 00:03:52 to 00:04:15

That was when I was in government. I was in Enterprise Singapore, Ministry of Trade & Industry, Economic Development Board and very much with that I started off the environmental engineering services within Enterprise Singapore. At that time around, even with inverted aircons, people ask, oh, should we even buy that? That's more expensive, more expensive than normal aircon. Of course time has actually advances now.

Victor (Guest) | 00:04:15 to 00:04:43

Now 2023 post Cop 26 everyone looks into environmental protection, climate justice and all this. So therefore I think the awards itself actually very much we're looking into the triple P that we have a lot of conviction with. We felt all businesses has to be balancing the nature resources, contribute back to the society, and financial is only just one part of it, it should not be the all of it in terms of a decision-making process.

Daphne (Host) | 00:04:46 to 00:05:21

And I also like to touch on. You have a very extensive career and definitely a lot of experiences that led to where you are today. Could you share a little bit more with us about your professional journey so far and what are some of the key milestones that led you to be where you are at today? Yeah you're right. I have a slightly curious type of career that sometimes I go to the mentorship programs and I tell them that maybe that teaches us what not to do. Don't follow this kind of career path right.

Victor (Guest) | 00:05:21 to 00:06:01

Most of the time we see people in career path when it goes into consulting and it goes all the way through. It goes into financial and they go all the way through, become financial controller, CFO investment. Mine I started off with a strategy consulting. I was actually with three of the big four. I was with KPMG, PwC, and Cooper's library and very much looking at solving CEO strategic problem. So I wasn't audit side, I was all in the management consulting side which after I was a mid-career hire to government. Most of my colleagues who stayed in consulting now they would have made partner.

Victor (Guest) | 00:06:01 to 00:06:53

So I cross over to the bright side. So I went to government, and that's where I was in Ministry of Trade & Industry, Enterprise Singapore, Economic Development Board. Clusters, I think, in there. That's where I had learned to look at more macro picture, where a business is only a part of an industry, an industry itself made up of the economy within the entire country which we looked at industry enterprises, it's not about just financial, but job employment, about value add, about how it contributes to the country. And in there, that's where very much of looking at, we do industry planning for ten years. I look after about eight sectors that ranges from aerospace, automotive, marine, oil and gas, environmental sector, biomedical and chemical as well as logistics.

Victor (Guest) | 00:06:53 to 00:07:30

So this sector actually allows, it looks at how to grow cluster linkages, and within there I've also looked at how to grow globally competitive companies. I set up a function called Industry Clusters and we had about 80 over account managers who goes out to help to groom company. So on daily basis every officer will go to visit a company in the morning and afternoon. So in five-day sessions they will meet up with ten companies. And since I've got 80 of them, 80 times ten will have been 800 in a week and then times a month for four weeks.

Victor (Guest) | 00:07:30 to 00:08:09

Yeah, and in a year times twelve, that's where easily you have 30,000 - 40,000 companies. So upon seeing it in and out, in and out and therefore we picked up the best 5% to be what we want to groom. And that's why we give them finances, we give them grants, we give them technology, we do research with them and therefore in hope that they can be tomorrow's globally competitive companies. So that was my in the government, I was there for ten years and which after I went to NGO space, I was also the Chairman for United Nations Global Compact and I was also with the Singapore Business Federation.

Victor (Guest) | 00:08:09 to 00:08:25

I was an acting CEO and also the COO there. And a lot of people would have said what is a NGO? It's neither private which I used to be, or public. I hear this, you're in the twilight zone of nowhere. So within the NGO,

Victor (Guest) | 00:08:25 to 00:08:55

that's where it grooms my understanding that I think certain resources, certain community groups where government could not help, and maybe the private as well, and that's where the NGO comes in to champion their needs. That's where I also looks into how to champion the needs of vulnerable groups. I was also chairman of Association for Person with Special Needs and we had about five schools for 1500 special needs. We helped them from seven years old to 62 years old.

Victor (Guest) | 00:08:55 to 00:09:21

And that's where we try to give them job independence and hopefully they could actually be financially independent themselves. And I guess subsequently after my NGO, I went to university and now I went to investment banking and run my own firm. So I had my career all flipped the other way around. Usually people do the NGO last or maybe go to university as retirement. Hear this or investment banking have been what it start off.

Victor (Guest) | 00:09:22 to 00:10:01

I'm now actually on the reverse. How do you think your past experiences has built up to the perspectives, to how you help companies, to your investment banking role and also consulting role today. Yeah, I guess if you hear it sounds like a very heterogeneous and also a very winding type of road. And actually to add it on to the sophistication would have been I was then apart from strategy consulting, we were with Pacific Internet and we were the first one to be NASDAQ listed in Singapore. And I was a CTO, Chief Technology Officer.

Victor (Guest) | 00:10:01 to 00:10:21

I was a technical path. And I guess at that period, everyone looks at me and said, hey Victor, Victor, you are the IT guy. So much so that even my dad when his computer spoiled, hey, ask Victor, come and sort it. So that was my career path. I was looking heavily trying to shed this image of this IT image.

Victor (Guest) | 00:10:21 to 00:11:11

And so I went on to government and it's like everytime claimed to be ignorant that I know IT at all. And subsequently going to NGO I was also the Chief Operating Officer and going to the university I was the Chief Development Officer. And so I practically took on all the C level scope that I've done even down to the Chief Revenue Officer, Chief Business Development and now the CEO. Right. So I guess having gone around a circle, that gives me a whole understanding of how the entire job scope of how in a multinational operation or company, how it works. And second part with the industry knowledge, it also allows me to just see a firm not from a firm perspective, from a greater part of the industry and from the economy part.

Victor (Guest) | 00:11:11 to 00:11:34

And laying on was also intersecting the people planet profit that businesses has to be sustainable. Correct. So I guess this gave me quite an interlaying lens and scope. So I looks at things not from monolithic one-directional, but actually be able to put on a few tiering of lenses so that when decisions are made, they are more holistic. Yeah, makes a lot of sense.

Daphne (Host) | 00:11:34 to 00:12:15

And one of the very interesting thing you mentioned earlier is about during your time at government, looking at different companies and partnering with them to help them become globally competitive companies. And at the same time you also had your operational experience being the CTO at Pacific.net, for example, and coupled with your other roles that you have mentioned, what in your view today makes a globally competitive company? When I was in government, the way how they actually define globally competitive would have to be if we are across, our companies are across at least two of the three continents. Right? So I guess that was a definition they had.

Victor (Guest) | 00:12:15 to 00:12:51

And competitive means that the ability to compete not just in our home ground, but in our continent, our home continent and also another adjacent continent. So competitive wise, you have to be at least your top five, top ten in the particular industry. Anyone think about okay list services, this is that firm of the top ten you can think about. So I guess that was what we originally set out to be and we had then also look at a revenue cut to do it. So that was a more government official, where we set up a target how to groom it as the definition.

Victor (Guest) | 00:12:51 to 00:13:30

But I guess if you ask me what then is a globally competitive companies? I suppose to be competitive I think the business model has to be sustainable. We've seen in recent years many businesses are disrupted. What seems to be viable then and doing extremely well, and overnight we see them collapsing. Right? And of course in the last 100 years we've seen in the early 1920s, you've seen all the steel company, oil companies are all great companies, they were at least in the Fortune 100 or 50, but which after you see some 50 years later, many of them actually dwindle off.

Victor (Guest) | 00:13:30 to 00:14:24

And we've seen even like of course in the past, Kodak, Polaroid, great company then. And I recall that during childhood we were having all the cameras that we take selfie wefie for each other, and even those firms actually have fallen. So likewise, whatever firms you're looking at now, I think none of them are actually sustainable or to a longer term, I think one has to guard against the disruption. One had also to be trying to be disruptive to what industry do and I guess being compliant to how the industry focus alone is not good enough. And that's where within the businesses we had, we actually started something called a Venture Studio and Accelerator and we call the Rebel Labs and the Rebel Labs we actually start to groom startup that could actually try to transform the norm, try to actually do something that are different and disrupt the norm.

Victor (Guest) | 00:14:24 to 00:15:12

And because I guess the current industry norm are not the most efficient. A lot of times, a lot of bureaucracy, a lot of times there are a lot more wastages in what they were doing a lot of times in terms of what it is very costly as well. So I guess a good business model should be one that the consumer, the customer find cost effective and they actually find essential. At the same time whoever runs it should also find it profitable then. What's an example of this startup that you have nurtured or helped build over the last couple of years? If it's open to sharing. Under the umbrella of Rebel Labs that's with the RHT Consulting Asia, I think that's where we had actually had groomed two companies. In early years, about 2018, we've seeded and also established a company called Air Carbon Exchange.

Victor (Guest) | 00:15:12 to 00:15:52

Okay, Air Carbon Exchange is notably a carbon credit license exchange. That was early years. In 2004 when I first started in the environmental sector there were already CDP credit exchanges but that was not doing well. When we started in 2018 we felt maybe time has come, but that was still early years. When it reaches 2020 there was COVID and by 2022 we saw COP 26 and COP 26 came by all countries were to actually pledge towards the 2050 carbon neutrality. So in here, all of a sudden carbon exchange come alive again, and so the voluntary market start to get a bit slightly more active.

Victor (Guest) | 00:15:53 to 00:16:25

2019, we also went on to being a law firm. We are quite good in getting licenses. So we went on to actually apply for a financial license market and in this case we did a Singapore Digital Asset Exchange. So the Singapore Digital Asset Exchange were able to tokenize capital and in this case, because we had streets trading as a shareholder and we had also Era REITs who actually manages Suntec. So notably we are quite good in terms of tokenizing buildings.

Victor (Guest) | 00:16:26 to 00:17:04

So buildings in the traditional route of raising funds is going through REITs in going through the SDAX way will be tokenizing it so you can fractionalize it and therefore you can securitize and raise funds on it. So yeah, these two are under the Rebel Labs that we actually had helped to establish some of the startups. You're really wearing a lot of hats across your different functions. I wanted to turn the page and touch a little bit upon you had shared a lot of your experiences across different roles. But what I think maybe our audience might not know is that during your time across these roles, you had also visited almost 40 different countries.

Daphne (Host) | 00:17:05 to 00:17:37

Even in the early part of your career when you're in KPMG, PwC, you're working across different countries and being in a very much international role is sort of, I would say, core to the roles that you have helped across your work stints and also leading delegations. So, building on that, with your extensive experience living abroad, what are some of the general learnings that you have had? And for people who are looking to think about moving to another country, what kind of advice would you have for them.

Victor (Guest) | 00:17:43 to 00:18:47

So firstly, I was also with the mentorship program in the Singapore Leadership Network and within the Singapore Leadership Network that is established by EDB as well as the Human Capital Leadership Institute. Very much we've been asking the youngsters to go overseas and what we found were despite Singapore is born global because it's small economy and we are quite exposed to multiple cultures as well as countries, operation from where we are. But what we noticed is the ability for our professionals to be able to actually manage a multinational or regional headquarters somehow found to be one thing because within the CVs we usually take a look and say, oh, you've been working in 20 years in Singapore and Singapore and Singapore, right? So in here, I think my early years I was in PwC then was called Pricewaterhouse Coopers. I was exiled to Shanghai those years, 1997, Shanghai is actually it was a hardship allowance having to go there.

Victor (Guest) | 00:18:47 to 00:19:17

I was also to sent to Taipei and it was also equally hardship and having to speak in only Mandarin and both sides operates under different Mandarin regime. One is on traditional writing, another one is in more simplified Chinese writing. And the way how they express are also notably different. And on top of that, then we actually put the region as Greater China. So it includes Hong Kong as well.

Victor (Guest) | 00:19:17 to 00:19:35

And Hong Kong is in sophisticated traditional writing while it speaks in Cantonese. So being exiled to such a region, I think most of my colleagues were finding it very difficult those years. They were saying, yeah, but Mandarin, who speaks Mandarin? I mean, most of my colleagues say that. For me, I think I'm a Chinese.

Victor (Guest) | 00:19:35 to 00:20:14

I think to be able to be closer to a community that my ethnicity is actually close to is something that I thought I should hold some pride or at least be immersed in and understand the language. And I've been there for like three years plus, and that gives me the ability to understand the nuances and which after of course, we now know fast forward to 2023, Chinese is one of the largest economy in the world and soon to be over to be one of the leading economy. And many of this market requires this language and this relationship as well.

Victor (Guest) | 00:20:14 to 00:20:48

So that bring home a lot of connectivity when it comes to doing business. So that was one advantage. In the other part, when I was in government, we actually led many trips. And when I was a business federation, we also led trips to lesser known places. So one of those that we go to were like in Africa or even down to Middle East in the early years, like ten over years ago. Of course, now Middle East in the early years when we go there, even Dubai, Abu Dhabi, it wasn't as flourished as what it is.

Victor (Guest) | 00:20:48 to 00:21:08

All the tallest building, tallest hotel, biggest the palm and all the rest were not there. Right? And what we do see are deserts and we see a commitment from them or wanting to grow. So I guess good that we have fought some connectivity there. And so now as they flourish, we find that this connectivity and businesses actually flows too.

Victor (Guest) | 00:21:08 to 00:21:40

And likewise for Africa, I've been to Egypt and went to Egypt, but of course it's one of the most ancient nations and civilization in the world. So while it's not easy to do business there but I guess we all knew Africa will grow. And some of this is to know them earlier and not at a later stage. I have businesses who many of them say, oh, let's go China, now it's slightly late. It'd be highly competitive. If you've been there earlier, 20 years ago, it'd be a lot better.

Victor (Guest) | 00:21:40 to 00:21:48

And likewise for Africa, it's still part of the BRICS and it's still a growing well and that's where some of them maybe should recognize it.

Victor (Guest) | 00:21:51 to 00:22:42

Last year I just went to Brazil, Sao Paulo. And Sao Paulo by itself is also quite an interesting place to be at one of the largest, the largest population in the whole South America by itself is also promising but unfortunately, in terms of their wealth disparity, you could see that they are ultra high net worth and the rest will stay in Favela. And in Favela where this is a slum in the Spanish language right? So many of them in the slums because they are born in the slum, they have no bank account, they have no schools to go to, the police cannot set up a station within the slums and even down to doing ecommerce, you're trying to order ecommerce or even a food delivery. Nobody can deliver beyond the slums or Favela war.

Victor (Guest) | 00:22:43 to 00:23:22

So in that case they almost has no accessory resources and almost, I think about 80% or 70% of the Brazilian population stays within the Favela. So in this case, what I've seen were the social enterprises came out to shine on it. What they've done were they actually did this is since the logistics could not deliver beyond that wall, they decided that they would do the last mile delivery. And secondly, since the outside bank would not lend to their people, they knew the favela, they know who are the one who's hardworking, who are the one who have good resources, they know who are the one who can loan money to. So therefore, they start coming out their own bank and they loan to the right people.

Victor (Guest) | 00:23:22 to 00:23:53

And since they know some of those people, they said perhaps I know who is hardworking. I can also give you entrepreneurial classes program and even come up with venture funds. And then with that then they said since we know how to do venture funds, why don't we start off even a stock exchange within Favela so everyone can then public list as well. That's a great example and demonstration that sometimes a commercial cannot solve a problem, neither can the public sector. And that's where the NGO, the social enterprises can come into shine.

Victor (Guest) | 00:23:53 to 00:24:25

And that's where I think, looking at solution resolution like that, it tells you that not only it is a business model, but it also can help to uplift the vulnerable group. At the same time it actually resolve a sustarter problem and I think the modern world businesses should be like that sustainable, resolve a real humankind or mankind problems. That's very interesting and it almost built like a whole ecosystem by itself today's initiative. That's right, yeah.

Daphne (Host) | 00:24:27 to 00:25:26

Some of these global experiences you kind of brought us around the world, how has that shaped the way that you advise clients today or your perspectives towards taking on some of the projects that you are taking on today? Yeah, I guess very much I'm quite humbled by I think in the past I recall when early years, even in Singapore Singtown was about buy over Hong Kong Telecoms. I recall I was also in pursuing internet and we tend to go around pursuing internet had multiple offices and we went to Hong Kong, Thailand, Malaysia, various Southeast Asia countries and we went around saying oh yeah, but Singapore, we did it this way. And I guess I recall Singtel went to Hong Kong, telecom was telling them too this is how we've done it. And I guess now, after being through decades of multiple countries, I realize how we solve our problem in Singapore is not the way how it could be solved in a different context of a different country.

Victor (Guest) | 00:25:27 to 00:26:04

That's one. Secondly, it very much humbled us that sometimes we saw how maybe in the Chinese way of doing something or maybe in another culture, Egyptian way of doing something, we might think as if that is not right. But actually we think about the Sao Paulo way quite a that's a great way of solving the problem. And that's where using our conventional Singaporean mindset, where we are quite fortunate to be nested in here. Government can lead in many initiatives, but in this initiative it's not what exactly in other countries they could so that's why we are very open minded to how to resolve problems, but new ways.

Victor (Guest) | 00:26:04 to 00:26:41

And the third part of it is what I've learned is I think that's where I repeated a few times the message is I think where business model is concerned it's not about financial. I think in Singapore we hear many entrepreneurs is about finance is a lifeline without finances and then if it's not profitable, then what's the point of doing? And in here I've seen, were that a lot of time, and we now see in this current era, what we call blended or impact investment. So certain business model comes with certain impact which are intangible. It may not be financial and in here, it may be a job creation, it may be a vulnerable group uplifting.

Victor (Guest) | 00:26:41 to 00:27:19

It might be in some way educating a larger group, which the return may not come in the next few years. But because of this educated group being uplifted, they become the next higher spending power that can come back and feed this loop. And I think that's where businesses actually does well. It should create its own community and then uplift them and then later on getting them back here as investors and give you a more systematic closed loop. Correct. And with that, that also helps to sort of the funds are able to move and then more businesses are created and then more jobs are created as a result.

Daphne (Host) | 00:27:19 to 00:27:35

So then the impact would then be amplified. That's right. Yeah. And I also understand that with Global Catalyst Advisory, you have advised numerous public, private sector and non governmental NGOs clientele. And these clients, they are around the world as well.

Daphne (Host) | 00:27:36 to 00:28:14

How is it like managing and advising clients from different countries, different mean? Firstly, some of them are quite impressive like the Thailand Ministry of Industry and also the Myanmar Ministry of Commerce. How is it like working together with them and what are some of the cultural nuances that you've picked up? I think one is we learned that the culture settings and where they come from, the problems are all different. And I guess that's why we learn to appreciate it's, not to impose ideas on them, but to be open minded to what are challenges and constraints.

Victor (Guest) | 00:28:15 to 00:28:42

I guess this is number one part that you see. Thailand has a totally different culture and Thailand agriculture, tourism, retail is a lot larger than their industrial space and manufacturing. Singapore, on the other hand, we are larger in manufacturing, finances and all the rest, whereas our retail is actually on the pom. So I guess that's where there's a need to be open minded. Looked at what they were having and on their space.

Victor (Guest) | 00:28:42 to 00:29:15

I think when we last discussed, they were looking at how to actually create a more value added from beyond what they were having. And I guess sometimes we had some of this government or consulting firms came to us and asked us even Middle East as well, could we replicate exactly what Singapore do? Unfortunately, our competence, our strengths are slightly different, our ecosystem is different. The same solution may not prevail some of them highlighted that. Can we just copy exactly your tax incentives, your grants, your SME program, etc.

Victor (Guest) | 00:29:16 to 00:29:32

It just wouldn't work. Because Singapore is quite unique by itself, we were forced to become independent. Some of the places they are more well endowed. I think in Thailand, for instance, they had strength in agriculture, a lot of farmers. I think they are more blessed than us and more resourceful there.

Victor (Guest) | 00:29:32 to 00:30:05

So I guess that's where in terms of their value added, their industry growth will be quite tremendously different from our destiny. In know, advising clients is one part of it and then the other part of it is also managing teams who are basically from different countries. What advice do you have? Or maybe could you highlight an instance where you adapted your leadership approach to different cultures and different countries? Yeah, during COVID days period, about 2020, we took on assignment with China Telecoms.

Daphne (Host) | 00:30:05 to 00:30:46

Okay. And very much it's just a different culture. And in 2020, US, UK very much were I think there was a decoupling, there was a derisking that we saw us started to delease some of the Chinese tech firm. So I guess that's where when we spoke to our clients and our client myself has a different sentiments to internationalization, to Singaporean. We look at internationalization as a must, mandatory, essential, because our domestic market is too small for in China, the domestic market is huge enough.

Victor (Guest) | 00:30:46 to 00:31:06

It's 1.5 billion people. Right? So therefore internationalizing has become a high risk. It's going out there and therefore you see all this race and all these issues that resulted from commercial to come political. So I guess in there was to readapt the mindset to what they were looking at in their mindset, they were looking.

Victor (Guest) | 00:31:06 to 00:31:37

At how to transform themselves from a tech firm, a telco firm, to be a bit more consultative, and how they're engineers. As it is, engineering mindset is a problem solving, a very engineering mentality. How do we become a problem solver? At the same time, they also give us the third issue was how do we get people to think more internationally in perspective, or understand that why do us react to us this way? Why do these guys, our other country reacted in that way?

Victor (Guest) | 00:31:37 to 00:32:21

And I guess that's where it also add on a new perspective to us. The team that were working on this come from China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, even Malaysia. We found that even as we assembled this team and trying to talk to China, the understanding the languages are also a problem, even though predominantly the team are ethnically, or Chinese are able to speak Mandarin as well. But I guess the ability to speak versus your understanding of the culture is totally different. So I guess in here, what we had then understood is that trying to understand the context of that individual, of that client, sometimes is more important than trying to solve that problem itself.

Daphne (Host) | 00:32:23 to 00:32:58

And living across different countries. How did you build your network when you enter into a new country? And how have you leveraged the networks that you have built over the years to the roles that you're taking on today? Yeah, I guess you're right. So the advantage of being internationalized, going overseas, having international career, is that the network that comes with you, which can become handy and I guess is to look at them not from business point of view, but to look from them from a friendship point of view, to look at them from a people to people, a human point of view.

Victor (Guest) | 00:32:59 to 00:33:29

Because whatever position they were some five years, ten years down the road, they may no longer be there. Some of them, whichever prominent position, they may retire. And likewise here that I could be a government official then and now I'm investment banking, or I could be something else, that here it is, I've changed. So I guess it's to look at each other from the humanity point, individual to individual, and also in terms of a friendship perspective, that what their strength is and also what their value is. I guess it's slated for a long term.

Victor (Guest) | 00:33:29 to 00:33:58

And I guess if the friendship is strong, I think the rest of business connectivity is not an issue. One of the roles that you're also taking on today is the Governing Council and CEO of China ASEAN Business Alliance. What's your current view of the growth of China and the ASEAN region? And also, I think you alluded to it earlier when you mentioned that China may eventually take over opposition. What's your current view of the growth of these two regions?

Daphne (Host) | 00:33:58 to 00:34:56

And how do you see each of these regions playing a role to ensure collective business success and to your point, a sustainable one over a long period of time, yeah. China and ASEAN has been each other's largest bilateral trading partner since almost ten years ago. And this will be so moving forward as well. Their close proximity within China, they have set up in Guangxi Naning, the capital at Canton West, and annually they will get the ten countries of ASEAN to get their head of state to be there, while they also will send in their head of state. And on annual basis they also rotate what they call a hit of ceremony or hit of which it will rotate from Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia onwards by alphabetical order, and which after whoever holds it will also moot or initiate projects, exchanges, et cetera.

Victor (Guest) | 00:34:56 to 00:35:34

So I guess we've seen from China and Malaysia they have exchanges, Guantan and also the other one was another land in Guangxi together for each other to develop. So with such a platform like that, naturally the G to G collaboration is very strong. And so with that, the foreign trade on both side, bilateral trade will continue to be strong. Second part is we've seen China had actually grown really strong in the last 30 years, three decades. And also, I think in terms of technology adoption, to now want the forefront of financial technology.

Victor (Guest) | 00:35:34 to 00:36:20

So in there with that 1.4 billion population that they had, and with that fintech technology, and in here in this part of the world, we could also see our own consumer tech that are coming up, agritech, deep tech and all the rest. We had also in the last ten year grow, where early years was only just two unicorns, I think we were looking back about 2014, two unicorns to now we had about 46 unicorns in Southeast Asia and in China, well, they had 200 over or more in their unicorn. So I guess both sites requires each other market. Both sites had technology that can be collaborated. And in Chinese side they had their own domestic market.

Victor (Guest) | 00:36:20 to 00:36:45

It was great. But many of them want to go internationalized. And this is about the friendliest clusters or economic block they can work with. A regional cooperative economic pact called RCEP was signed with China since 2020, and that allows free trade, MRA, et cetera. So therefore, this gives a very natural spillover for all the trades for Southeast Asia here, 700 million population.

Victor (Guest) | 00:36:45 to 00:37:32

And with this, if it's well tested, they should be also brought to a Chinese market to test the market too. And I guess that's where they both add together as a natural extension of a two B market and $2 billion market is 2 billion population, market is about one quarter of the whole world's population, or even one third. Yes, and Southeast Asia being also nested together with India, if the tree add up together, we have half the world's population. So I guess the growth is immense and I think from world economic forum, United Nations, they all see that this part of the world will be the tomorrow's or next decades of growth. And I guess we have to actually balance off the politics, ensure stability and then continuous business growth from here.

Victor (Guest) | 00:37:32 to 00:37:50

And if they are, I think it's as promising as what we can see it to be. It's very exciting for us to be situated in this region to see and witness the growth in the next couple of years. Yeah. Especially for the Singaporean who are listening here. I think they are well nested where in Singapore, a melting pot of all the different cultures we can see in Asia.

Victor (Guest) | 00:37:50 to 00:38:09

And I think we are blessed that we have known numerous of these Asian languages. So these are very highly portable. And also, in terms of education process, I think NUS to NTU, all these various universities were top ranking, top ten in the world. NUS just got top eight. Right.

Victor (Guest) | 00:38:09 to 00:38:39

And then I think NTU was about top eleven or 13. So with this, this basically give us a very good education, international outlook, and also enough of tools and competence to conquer this part of the world. Yeah, very exciting. Just two last questions for me. The first one is so, in summary, I mean, we have touched on different parts of your career, but what would you say is the most pivotal moment that changed or shaped the perspective of what you're doing today?

Victor (Guest) | 00:38:41 to 00:39:16

Yeah, I guess perhaps it's a continuous process. And to say that there's a particular pivotal moment that actually that change and turnover leave, I'll say it's a continuous process, which I did highlight earlier to every switch itself, as many of my colleagues have seen before, and said, hey, why have you changed your career and changed your new industry? That is very big risk. Changing is something you've not done before is a risk. But I think to me, a switch by itself, actually one, is a new opportunity.

Victor (Guest) | 00:39:16 to 00:39:40

And usually that allows a certain growth at the same time. Sometimes marrying two different industries of competence allows you to create something new as a competitive edge that others may not have. So versus a narrow pathway. So I guess if I've been asked would I do what I do again? I think probably yes, I would still do the same rather than pursue a singular narrow career route.

Daphne (Host) | 00:39:40 to 00:40:16

Yeah, that's very interesting because you also mentioned about melting pot, and we see a melting pot of different roles coming together and amalgamating in what you are doing today with a focus of sustainability. I mean, drawing from your experience at UN Global Compact, and then with the sustainability focus and also with what you're doing now, and then tying everything together, looking ahead. Any advice for people who are thinking about exploring an international career? How they should go about doing it? Should they just jump straight into it?

Daphne (Host) | 00:40:16 to 00:40:39

What advice you have for them? Yes, I think that's great questions. And many of the career or professionals or even graduates who are new looking at a lot of time, I heard about this. They were highlighting that by lifting to a new place. I will lost what I have at my current place and to live to a new territory.

Victor (Guest) | 00:40:39 to 00:41:09

Will means I'm starting afresh with no friends there. And here it is. I'm leaving behind all the thing that I have. I guess from someone who had done it before, I would say maybe the perspective could be changed that going to somewhere totally new and ground zero means you have everything else to gain and lesser to lose. And I guess in the home ground here, Singapore, it's a great place to be at but nonetheless there's only just 5.8 million population now.

Victor (Guest) | 00:41:09 to 00:42:10

And with this by itself, what we see here is no doubt very international, but it's not the whole world. And I guess having seen certain part of the world like as I just now mentioned about Sao Paulo of the Favela, down to the Egypt of how they have done things and down to even in China, in Taiwan and even down to early on I was going to Moscow. That's where you found different culture and different way of operations are notably drastically different from what we think. And this humbled our hearts, this broaden our mind and this also at the same time deepened a little bit of our capabilities and also our tolerance level to say let's then learn how they do something, I guess with this that probably allow us to then start assimilating and learn a lot more things. And that's where after returning back and I've seen many of my other colleagues or friends who, when they're overseas and they came back, they are slightly different for how it is here.

Victor (Guest) | 00:42:10 to 00:42:35

And they are slightly more resourceful. They are also slightly more tolerant of how things are. And they also had a broader mindset of how things could have evolved. And I guess for this professional career, new graduates, et cetera, who are looking out for international career, I'll say embrace it and treat it as a journey. And it's not like an investment that I must have an immediate return.

Victor (Guest) | 00:42:35 to 00:43:14

If I go there, I must make sure I'll become a director before I come back. I'll make sure my salary's double or triple. In that case, I think those experience are invaluable even if the salary may have a slight drop because Singapore has become quite expensive now our salary is quite high, even that has a slight drop. But I think the experience itself is priceless and that's almost like if you go to some Ivy League school and you pay a school fee of 100 and 6180 thousand in here, you're riding on a companies that will bring you there and therefore had exposure for free. So maybe having that kind of mindset might be more palatable.

Daphne (Host) | 00:43:15 to 00:43:24

Okay, thank you so much with that, we wrap up the English segment of today's episode. We'll now move on to the Chinese rapid fire questions. This Chinese one too? Yes.

Victor (Guest) | 00:43:27 to 00:43:32

How long would that be? Probably take maybe about five minutes. Is that okay? Okay. Sure?

Victor (Guest) | 00:43:32 to 00:43:34

Yes. Okay.

Daphne (Host) | 00:43:38 to 00:43:41

现在进行快问快答的环节那啊，那个你准备好了吗？哦，好，OK，那啊，首先能够用中文做个自我介绍，哦好呀，我，我叫Jia Shun，我姓郑。我是 Global Catalyst Advisory 咨询管理顾问的总裁，然后我也在 Stout，就是投资银行在这里做合并和并购。然后我也是在 RHT Consulting Asia 里头这个 Group CEO，集团总裁， 然后在这里我们在帮起步公司集资，然后在策略方面，然后再到这个public listing。所以这是现在的那个工作。好，那您您认为就是在扩展到一个新的市场的时候，学习

Victor (Guest) | 00:43:46 to 00:44:20

一门语言会是很重要的一个部分吗？嗯，的确那是一个最基本的工具啊，当你去国外的话，这就是当然是，虽然英语是一个，国际语言是一个到很多国家都可以互通的，不过到一个新的那个工作环境当中，他当地的那个地头蛇，或者是当地的一些企业公司老板等等，都希望你能用他的语言跟他交谈。在语言，它本身只不过是一个工具罢了，而这工具本身是让你可以引领进入更深的一层，就在文化当中。例如，如果去中国的话，可以中文跟他去交谈，中文当中也只不过是一个工具，如果你在交谈当中还能引入了解他的文化，甚至有时还可以吟诗作乐，可能在这里和他就是就是饮茶或者是甚至喝白酒的话，他们会觉得这，你跟他其实是一个蛮相近的一个文化，觉得是一个在这里做一个战略伙伴，是一个他们可以接受的。

Daphne (Host) | 00:44:24 to 00:45:36

好的，那就我们就问一些比较有趣的问题，您您就是旅游的，不同的就是您到了不同的各个不同的国家。那你最喜欢的国家是哪一个？

Victor (Guest) | 00:45:39 to 00:45:41

哦，我想都蛮就就蛮难说，哎，去那不，不过既然你问了，就有好几个国家去一个在这里是蛮难忘的。比如说埃及，埃及是个5千年的古国，在埃及的，单单看埃及的这金字塔怎样去建立起来，单单看他在里头的那个梯级，他里头有很多不同的梯级，还有不同的宝藏地方。甚至在设立的时候，在整个金字塔的下面都往这土地里头，它还延伸着很多一些啊，就是一些。不同的那个梯级，有些是一个刻意做出来战略性的一个死局。就让一些可能去那边盗墓的墓贼，哦，在那边就竭尽所能，然后之后结果就把他们给就是困住了。所以大家这样子想，5000年的历史，5000年的科技啊，到现在要怎么样去设立一个这样的金字塔呢，在我们现代当中很难去做啊，这这是一个蛮大的关系。那当然还有一些其他的一些难忘的国家。例如

Daphne (Host) | 00:45:43 to 00:47:43

在在巴西的那个圣保罗当中啊，大家看他们那边的贫富悬殊非常大，他的一些画面可以看到，比如一边是一个高楼大厦。这高楼大厦是一个私，私宅，哦，而且在新加坡的 condominium。他本身每一层都有自己的一个很大的游泳池，这游泳池当中就每一层都有，就他在旁，照片旁边那边。另外一端是一个高的墙，城墙，里边全部是一些非常邋遢的一些房子，所以两那边都是住着那个他叫 Favela，也就是那些平民啊，平民窟啊。而两边造成一个非常正面的对比，那对比它当中为什么会设立一个城墙呢？

Victor (Guest) | 00:47:43 to 00:47:53

因为这些非常富有的，又害怕这些进来，哎，这些进来他偷东西。虽然在建筑一个城墙。不过能看到，就是在这里，虽然是贫民窟的人了，他也不为他自己的环境所屈。我看到他们创造了很多的那个 social enterprise 社会企业，在当中去解决自己的问题，比如他们在当中也让自己可以成为一个企业家啊，他在这里集资啊，在这里甚至建造自己的银行啊，甚至在里头警察都不敢进去他们的贫民窟，他在这里呢，把自己建立了一个自己的保安和那个就是一个防卫队。这是一个看起来就是一个不仅是他的环境，而是他们那个多坚韧的那个，他们的那个 commitment 和他们的will。

Victor (Guest) | 00:47:53 to 00:48:20

好，那今天的那个博客就到此为止呢，非常感谢，Dr Victor今天和我们花花了很多时间，就是啊，分享你的经验。也是就是对于你就是带我们到不同的从一个商务领域当中带我们到不同国家去走走，那非常感谢Victor的时间。谢谢谢谢，谢谢没有，这给我这机会，你们的观，你们的听众一起就聊聊和支持互动，谢谢，谢谢你。

Daphne (Host) | 00:49:11 to 00:49:43

Woman thank you so much, Victor, for taking the time today to share with us your experiences in our podcast episode. I've personally learned a lot about the different cultures across different countries and also how to think about about building a sustainable business that makes sense in today's modern world. So thank you so much for your time. Thank you. Thank you.

Victor (Guest) | 00:49:43 to 00:49:45

Thanks for having me. Thank you. Thank you.