Cultural Agility in Cross-Border M&As with Rebecca Pang, VP of Treasury Solutions, RBC

In this episode of Business Beyond Borders, we're joined by Rebecca Pang, Vice President of Treasury Solutions at a leading Canadian Bank. Rebecca shares her journey from transitioning from a strategist specializing in mergers and acquisitions to an innovator in payment system advancements, offering insights into how efficient payment processes not only streamline processes for business owners but also serve as catalysts for growth and opportunity.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Navigating cross-border mergers and acquisitions, while considering cultural differences and regulatory complexities
• Managing a large team of 100 across different time zones
• The role of mentorship in career transitions and the importance of community support for professionals, particularly in Asian communities
• The impact of AI and sustainable financing on the financial industry, and the growing threat of cyber attacks, emphasizing the need for robust digital security measures

Links:

• Bluente's Website: www.bluente.com
• Rebecca's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rbcrebeccapang/
• Our Socials: @bluente.official (Instagram and TikTok)

Chapters

• 0:10 Exploring Trends in Cross-Border Payments
• 7:04 Navigating Cross-Border Business Dynamics
• 13:50 Building Networks in a New Country
• 20:47 Immigrant Resilience and Community Involvement
• 33:56 Importance of Mentorship and Industry Trends

Transcript

Daphne: 0:10

Welcome to another episode of Business Beyond Borders. Today I'm really excited to have with us Rebecca Pang, who is currently the Vice President of Treasury Solutions at a Canadian Bank. Currently she's based in Toronto, Canada, and very excited to have her share with us her journey. Welcome, Rebecca.

Rebecca: 0:29

Thank you so much. Great to have me here today.

Daphne: 0:33

Thank you. Maybe let us kick off with the very first question, and I would love to find out and share with our listeners what inspired your journey into the financial services space and, more specifically, your current focus on Treasury Solutions and also strategic business development.

Rebecca: 0:52

Yeah, I'm always fascinated by the bank, that the role they play in the society and also in connecting business that require capital versus investor that can offer capital, and I think my career in banking is really built by the dynamic intersection. I've done strategy as a management consultant early in my career and merger and acquisition and now getting into payment, which I will touch on later. So I think it's really the constant pursuit of trying to understand the intricate dance between numbers and strategy that fill my passion. As I mentioned, I've done M&A for a couple of years, so it's really crafting impactful strategy that actually leads to some of the ignore GNA or complex M&A to execute those growth opportunities. So all of those steps are great learning experience.

Rebecca: 1:42

Now back to payment.

Rebecca: 1:44

I think payment as we look today is really looking at how we can shape the next generation innovative payment that are evolving needs of our client.

Rebecca: 1:54

And my focus is all more on the commercial banking side, which I know in the payment world retail payment you know you and I use a lot of FinTech and payment out and in the commercial banking side, you know, for business owner there's still a huge opportunity for payment innovation and when you think about it, for any business owner, whether you run large corporation or small business owner, one man show payment is just the lifeblood and at the core of the commerce.

Rebecca: 2:22

Right, like you know, you got to pay your vendor, you're going to receive payment for your from your customer and you want to do all of those on a timely basis, with accuracy, speed and ease and, more importantly, with all the correct information that comes with the payment that will help you to reconcile the both and know hey, are you making money or you losing money? Right? So payment is really mission critical to ensure the company has adequate funds to capitalize on and also to support them to grow further. So that is where I find my current interest is really to help my clients to have easiest, fastest and most helpful payment mechanism in their day to day.

Daphne: 3:06

Yeah, and just think that you talk about payments, because this industry is moving very quickly, and also in Asia. What we are also seeing is that there's a lot of cross border payments. For instance, now being here in Singapore, I can go to a country like Indonesia and still use the QR code to make payment based on my banking solution. What are some of the trends that you might have observed in terms of payments and how cross border payments are shaping up in the industry? Yeah, absolutely.

Rebecca: 3:35

Payment is interesting, right, and I think when you think about cross border, which I may touch on later but learning from different industries is fascinating because I remember when I first started my first job as a management consulting back then is Dotcom 1.0 and I was in China looking at, wow, all the Dotcom companies in the US and learn the case that we have the same pet dot com in China, etc. Etc. Yahoo Dotcom in China. Right Nowadays, as you mentioned, we look back, can love America, learn something from Asia in terms of the payment adoption and innovation. Part of it has to do with for some country, because of the payment infrastructure they completely live for to the next generation, and for some people that have more developed payment infrastructure I would say during the 70s and 80s that actually has been a barrier for them to quickly live for to the next gen payment solution to have homogeneous or harmonized payment across region and across border. So I think the upcoming trend which has been talked about for a long time is still about real time payment. How can we make payment faster, right, especially when you get the cross border payment. It's not that easy today and then also I touched on earlier with the useful information that comes with payment, right?

Rebecca: 5:09

Imagine if you are a manufacturer. You're going to pay your vendor. You know the vendor that provide you raw material could have sent you free invoices. Hey, guess what? I want to cut a chat we use chat a lot in North America to pay for the free invoices. Or I want to take advantage of the discount of invoice number one, but I want to pay half of the invoice number two. So all of those. How do you make sure the payment travel with the information? So at the end of the vendor they know how to reconcile. Oh, you're only paying one invoice and second invoice, so I still need to follow up the half of the second invoice and the third invoice. Imagine that's only for one vendor If you have a hundred vendors, right, so that gets complex. So I think the payment information is another trend that will become more and more important and hopefully, you know, with a lot of the new ISO standard it will make it more homogeneous across country.

Daphne: 6:13

And you know, turning back time a little bit, you were talking about previously you were doing a couple of M&A particularly. We understand that you know during your tenure at China Unicom you played quite a pivotal role in terms of international acquisitions, including that of the Asia Global Crossing. Could you walk us through how is that experience and how is it acquiring a foreign entity, especially back in the days?

Rebecca: 6:39

Yeah, back in the days and when I was there it was part of China Neckum and then China.

Rebecca: 6:47

Unicom. So it's one of the first cross-border acquisitions by a Chinese company of a foreign entity and it's also in, you know, critical industry, right? So there's definitely a lot of complexity in it. And also that acquisition is done, the acquiring is in the process of bankruptcy procedure, right? So all of these add to the dynamics of cultural element.

Rebecca: 7:21

It's a different regulatory regime and approval process that we have to go for, or even like language, right, you know, obviously a lot of the document of the company that we're in turn it acquire is English and then when we present the key findings to our internal approval has to be in Chinese, right? So all of these add to the element, as well as the, that acquisition involved, not for maybe 300 internal external professionals, right, we work with all the accounting firm, banker, lawyer, consultant to help throughout the due diligence. So managing that process, as well as people speaking different language in different locations US, hong Kong, china time zone and also sometimes how people communicate certain things right, how they agree, how they disagree, different culture may say it differently as well as touch on the internal approval process, how many layers to socialize Could be very different from a Chinese company versus a foreign entity, and it has to make it transparent to the other party to a certain extent, so that people know what to expect and know what are the milestones that we continue to hit.

Rebecca: 8:47

So I think for that experience obviously that stimulate my interest to pursue a career and emanate later in my career, but also give me the first sense of how to manage any cross border or, simply put, leading a team from very diverse background right, the geography or cultural language. Or even today, where most of my work is focusing in Canada, but I'm still leading people from very diverse culture because there's an immigrant country right. So I think that experience back in the day is still very much applicable and the bottom of it is, when you are leading and working with a team from very different background, always think about what is an in for them. How do I get them right in? I think that, ultimately, is the most important point, whether it's different culture or different opinion or different line of business.

Daphne: 9:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's really quite interesting, I think right now. Recently, you have been awarded the RBC Global Citizen Winner and also have been spending quite a bit of time orchestrating cross-business, cross-border, cross-geography type projects in your current, or maybe in your previous, role by the same company. How were some of the learnings that you had back then, especially, I would assume, since it was the first time a Chinese entity is purchasing a foreign entity? There was no such thing as a playbook that you could refer to. What were some of the learnings that you took away from that and continue to apply to what you are doing right now?

Rebecca: 10:41

Yeah, so a couple of things. One is important to enmasse the time to build the trust, whether it is the counterpart or the professional firms that you're going to work with, and different culture and different geography will, at the time, require team masks to build that relationship, but it's important. And the second thing is, as I mentioned, I think, what is it in for the other parties and for?

Rebecca: 11:11

them whether it's negotiation, whether it's getting their buy-in. Because we come from so different backgrounds, so how we look at a deal could be very different what our management in China versus the professional that are advising us based in Hong Kong. I think the third thing is universally true.

Rebecca: 11:38

I think being able to communicate the clear why, is important for us, at least internally, to get the approval Because, as I mentioned, it's one of the first type of this cross-border deal, so it's a lot of focus on scrutiny, what could go wrong? So for us to deliver a compelling value proposition why that cross-border transition makes sense as part of the longer-term strategy and why this money and why this time. So I think that's the key to success to build the credibility within our own regulatory or approval gatekeeper so that they know OK, even though there's no play ball but there is compelling reason, you have done your proper due diligence. You have let all of these professional firms you are clear about what are you getting and how you're going to integrate the company you acquire to fit your future strategy.

Daphne: 12:50

Yeah, I love that. So we really touched around how you had started your career in Asia Hong Kong, china, and then now moving to the US and as well as Canada. What was some of your? How was the transition for you moving from one region to another? What prompted you to make that shift and move into another region?

Rebecca: 13:18

Yeah, so in my career I have ruled myself a couple of times. I went to the states to study two times and then went back to Hong Kong, stopped my career and I went to China and after my MBA I may mention earlier because of personal reason, I came to Canada without knowing anyone. So it's really restarted my life. So I'll say what trigger for me to move around or move to different region. As you can see, some of those motivated by opportunity when I went to China or when I went to the states for study, and some are because of circumstances, personal reason.

Rebecca: 14:02

I didn't know anything about Canada and I only knew my husband one person and it was tough at the beginning because I already have a few years of experience back then. So I had an expectation OK, it shouldn't be too hard to find a job in Canada because I have all the right of an experience. I remember I sent out like 500 resume and I didn't hear back from many. And for those I heard back like interview with a few companies and the common question they have is always oh, you don't have a Canadian experience. I think we Canadian talk about it as a joke because it still happens, right, people laugh about the Canadian experience. But then I say, well, I have experience in the two largest economies of the world, why wouldn't it be relevant?

Rebecca: 14:57

So what I learned is really upon the individual I guess the immigrant or the newcomer to try to tell your story. You cannot expect people understand. What is China now come? What is China Unicom? Or? I graduated from Chinese University Accounting Degree, which is the most difficult faculty to get in at that time. You have to make it a relevant and be able to translate. Oh OK, china Neckom is equivalent to Bell TataCop in.

Daphne: 15:31

Canada.

Rebecca: 15:33

But it's time larger right. So being effective in telling the story is important and very cliche. Making network is important, because I cannot expect to show up with a Stanford MBA you get a high ME. It doesn't happen that way. When you move to a new country, you gotta find your network and talk to people to really understand what they're looking for, and showing up is half of the battle. I think it's really true right when I was looking for a job. I do try to rebuild my network and take a lot of effort, but now it's a multiplier right, and after a few years you start to have your own network in Canada and then it gets easier. So I think that applies no matter when you move to any new country right.

Rebecca: 16:35

Yes, you can average what you have, but you really have to be deliberate on building your network and telling your story.

Daphne: 16:44

Yeah, and building on how you build the network moving to a new country, what do you have? Any tips for people who are moving to a new country? What are some of the ways they can start building the network or at least form the initial circle to continue building from there?

Rebecca: 17:04

Yeah, I remember at that time at Google what are the 50 ways to build network, right? So there's some obvious choice. If you have a CFA or a CA destination, go join those local chapter, right. Or if your university have a lot of overseas alumni, so see if there's a student alumni organization in the city that you're moving to and then start to explore locally because, yes, joining those alumni network is good because you have something in common with those people, but the most important thing is you have to find break in the local network. That's where you can really break into the local performance in the world, right. So I mean, here I join.

Rebecca: 17:56

There's women in capital market in Canada. I'm sure every country has this equivalent, right. So I think you just really try to find different aspects of yourself, right. Women. Find a women organization. Your interest in, I don't know, climate change, okay, try to find those that resonate with you, right. At least find one element that is in common, right.

Rebecca: 18:22

And at the beginning of my time in Canada, I try to go to a lot of networking events and I always try to go with one friend who is very much extrovert, right, and you know, so it can help me to meet other people and also have a rule for myself and try to make it fun as a little game that I play with myself. It's every time when I go networking I have a stack of cards, right, I have to give out 50 cards or receive 50 cards before I call it quit. Right, because I'm an introvert, like many people, I get tired after a while at the networking event. But just to do it as a muscle training, as a discipline, I almost force myself to do it. So after a while you kind of get used to, right, and you know not all the 50 cards are useful, but at least you're getting yourself into the habit to put yourself out there to meet people.

Daphne: 19:31

Yeah, I think that's something I can learn myself as well, as an introvert kind of reaching out. It's always saying that first hello. It's always the tricky part, but once you get into the conversation then it becomes much easier. Actually, you know, reflecting back on your move to the US and also basically the North American region and the kind of professional experiences and roles that you have taken up, then how would you say the move and having moved from one region to another has led to the different types of roles or projects that you have taken on today?

Rebecca: 20:13

Yeah. So I will say a couple of things that I learned from that experience and build the track record right For sure. Number one you are very agile. You can pick up luggage to luggage and go to a new place to start again, right. So that will really set you up if there's any out of states or out of province opportunity you so you can do it. And then the second thing is resilience right. How many people can tell you that, hey, with good experience I get 500 rejection but I keep going right? And I think that's common among the immigrant. And sometimes people don't pay attention to that kind of resilient right. Because as you progress in your career, a lot of projects that you do it's not all the time will line up small fleet right. So the kind of resilience you have go through in your personal life to up with yourself and settle into a new country, that will help you to tackle any new project and new challenges as well.

Rebecca: 21:33

And then obviously, as you go through the career, that may be opportunity because of, let's say, the language that you know in addition to English, or the heritage you bring, that may make you more suitable or more competitive when dealing with certain client set men right, for example, every year have a newcomer team that focus on serving newcomer right so and they do tend to look for professional that are newcomer themselves so they can relate better with the client that they want to serve.

Daphne: 22:10

Yeah, yeah, that's very amazing and, you know, reflecting on your journey, taking a brief first step, moving to a foreign country. What I would love to congratulate you on is you have been recognized as a key influence in the market, especially within the Asian community in Toronto, and that must have been quite a feat, given that you've been moving to a different country and you mentioned your introvert yourself, so that must have taken a lot of hard work and also grit and resilience from yourself. Can you share with us how you are currently engaging with the community and also your views around the cultural sensitivity that transcends to cross-border business operations?

Rebecca: 22:56

Absolutely, and I would say the involvement in the community. It just come natural right Because, as I mentioned, when I first came to Canada, it took me a while to find my footing in this new country and the sense of belonging. I actually find it quite helpful when I start volunteering, spending time and fundraising for some of the non-profit organization, because they are serving a lot of the stakeholders, just like myself. So I find my voice is actually quite valid for those organizations. So through working with them, I find my purpose in this new country, which to me is very important, and again the sense of belonging. So nowadays I'm spending more time on sitting on board for different non-profit organizations. For example, I sit on the board for an organization that called e-Home. That is senior housing for seniors from Asian background.

Rebecca: 24:04

So if you think about it, we all love to have our home food like Singaporean food, chinese food every now and then, and when a senior retire and get old and live in a senior housing, how nice it is to have cultural rather than meals or activities. So I sit on the board because I really believe in their vision and some of my family members have lived in those senior housing as well and benefit from it.

Rebecca: 24:45

I also sit on the board for Toronto Zoo, which is one of the largest zoo in Canada, and I particularly interest in seeing how immigrant like myself can enjoy and learn more about animal their kids at the Toronto Zoo. How can we attract more new immigrants to enjoy the zoo Because many of them maybe, like myself, came from a city that don't have that kind of world-class zoo right? So right now for me, as I try to spend more time as board of director, I try to focus on causes that I can resonate well, either from an immigrant angle or I'm particularly interested in either youth empowerment, education or healthcare space, which I think are two very important pillars to have strong society for a better, sustainable future.

Daphne: 25:51

Yeah, and interesting that you mentioned about students and education. You have also funded a scholarship with the Ted Rogers School of Management in Toronto Metropolitan University, directly impacting international students. What, for that particular cause that you're championing, what kind of motivation that you have that inspired you to decide to fund the scholarship?

Rebecca: 26:21

Yeah, thanks for asking that, and this is one of the proudest things that I have accomplished last year, as I think about, you know, volunteering and serving community.

Rebecca: 26:36

You know, I have put in my effort, my brain power and I've always been thinking about how can I make it more purposeful? Do I need to wait until I retire, or do I need to wait until I leave the world to do something like that? And I think, well, actually, no, I don't. You know, I don't need to wait until that moment. Do it now. The motivation is really thinking about my international student experience, which is, by the way, fantastic, great learning. But there's also, you know, like any international student's, home sake.

Rebecca: 27:15

You know, feeling you're on your own, even though I learned independence from that. But you know, the sense of do I belong to this country is really strong, and by setting this scholarship I mean obviously it's some financial support to help out some of the students that they need, but also I want to give them the sense of belonging right, because the international learning experience is one of the best for most people.

Rebecca: 27:45

They look back right the kind of learning you know, developing cultural sensitivity and, as I mentioned, like resilient independence. These are very useful for their later life and I just want to do a little bit so that they feel more enjoyment when they're going through their experience and they feel someone is, you know, looking out for them.

Rebecca: 28:04

And also, you know, tell the school that, in addition to providing that scholarship, I also want to meet with the student and have a chat right or mentoring session. So so that's what I feel I can already do with my resources, either financial or my experience, in a very, very way, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and, and, and you know, building on building on debt as a student living abroad.

Daphne: 28:36

What are some of the challenges that you often see in based on your mentoring session, some of the things that they face, and how will you advise them to overcome that?

Rebecca: 28:44

Yeah, a couple things as I mentioned, maybe using my own right I spent a year at Columbia University or some exchange in New York, right Manhattan. Fantastic, great experience. But I was taking a lot of political science courses.

Rebecca: 29:03

I think just you know a few years and you know language was a challenge. It's a lot of writing assignment that you know. Writing and reading that really you know, take me a long time to catch up and and also not knowing anyone to ask for help, right. And as I said at some point during that year, I feel, living in a big city like Manhattan and not knowing anyone, I started to feel homesick, especially when, when the winter come, when it started to snow, right. So I'm sure these are all common experience that international students will feel.

Rebecca: 29:44

What I will advise is, I think, just think of, think of that experience, as I said, is how you build resilience. Yes, right, and look at the challenges as temporary and knowing that, because brave enough to make that decision to go to a new country, you have enough courage and ability to overcome those transition challenges that you are facing. And I will say those experiences, when you look back and when you start working, it will be very relevant to add to that, obviously, the global perspective that you know you can read about it, but to really experience it you have to be in that environment. And you know, working in a group project with your classmates from very different backgrounds, joining the student club and then to communicate.

Rebecca: 30:56

And, yes, I spoke English when I was studying in Hong Kong, but it's not the same. Right, you learn about the nuances, how you can present in a certain way when I was living, studying in North America, and let alone the expanded network. These days, a lot of the jobs require a network that go very broad. Right, and these days I still, you know, from time to time, through LinkedIn or through WeChat and WhatsApp, reach out to my friends in different countries. Hey, I'm looking at XYZ company, what do you think?

Rebecca: 31:30

Do you have any resources, right? So those are the benefits, as well as independent, as I mentioned, right, you're going to solve the problem, even to find a doctor, or you know, that could be the first time someone living away from home, right? So, okay, how did you learn to really cook and then being able to survive on your own?

Daphne: 31:53

Yeah, and and you know the conversations that we have had so far one of the things that really inspire me is the fact that you are very willing and you want to give back to the community and causes that you feel very strongly and strongly for and you're championing. And what I would love to touch on and also congratulate you on is being recognized as the mentor of the year, and that is a significant achievement. I would love to know, you know, how has mentorship, or how important has mentorship, played a role in your personal journey and how do you continue to either seek out mentors or mentees who are facing similar journeys or maybe different journeys as yourself, and continue to give them advice and be a sounding board for individuals out there?

Rebecca: 32:47

Yeah, absolutely. I would say mentorship is always important for everyone's career journey, right? We all need someone to sometimes help us to see what we cannot see about our potential or the blind spot we have, or just open up our horizon. Right, I'll say, particularly important is when you got to change. You know, make some big transition, either, like myself, making a move across country or across industry. Right, there's a lot of learning I can get from mentors. For example, when I moved from US to Canada, a colleague a previous colleague of mine helped me to pass around the resume and through a couple of people passing down my resume, I get my first job right. So, you know, even though that colleague is not necessarily my mentor, but she's willing to lend her network to me to help me find my first job.

Rebecca: 33:56

And when I moved from strategy to sales, which is a big shift, I also go to my mentor and ask about hey, you know, I've been doing well in strategy. I enjoyed the intellectual challenge. I can always learn something new. If I stay on in strategy, what do you think? But I'm always curious about sales, p&l and with his advice, I jumped to sales because, you know, when someone gives you the belief and opportunity to try something new. Why not, right? So I definitely feel mentors has helped me a lot in terms of, as I say, like confirming some of my belief or challenging some of my thinking right when I make those decisions. And on top of that, obviously, if it makes sense, I open doors to some of the network that I want to build. So right now, what I'm doing is I continue to seek out mentors and mentees. Recently I started an Asian professionals network and the company that I work in I think is really creating the platform for like-minded individuals that, with Asian heritage, now there's a safe space for them to share their experience, to help each other to elevate and advocate and also help them to find mentors. And personally I mentor a lot of people in the organization or outside the organization. Some of them have similar background, right like Asian women or minority women or new immigrants, and I always feel, by sharing my own experience, some of the setback that I have. I hope I can help someone to make it faster for them right or elevate one each other.

Rebecca: 35:50

So I would say, yes, mentorship is important and it takes time to craft that relationship. It's not transactional. You always treat it as not as a friend. But it's a relationship that you want to build on. You want to make sure it's a win-win relationship, right?

Rebecca: 36:11

One thing people should be mindful is, you know, don't go to someone to ask oh, can you give me a job or can you introduce me to 10 other people? Right, think about what you will ask a friend to do and what you will do to a friend. Right, ask your mentor what do you care about? What's important to you? How can I be helpful? Think about reciprocal. So that's the key success factor for maintaining a strong mentor-mentor relationship, as long as keeping your mentor in the loop, right. A lot of times people think about it as transactional. Oh, I get my next job Now. Goodbye, mentor, I don't need to be in touch with you for a long period of time until next time I want to find a new job, right? So that again is not relationship building, but it's transactional and it's not about what mentoring should be.

Daphne: 37:04

Yeah, yeah, it's very important. I used to also be a management consultant at Bain and then being investing in, you know, mentoring relationships and also even until today that I've left for a while continuing to keep them updated. I think you have pointed it absolutely right in terms of building relationships, and I think that doesn't just apply to mentorship, but also in any relationship that you're building. We alluded to it earlier when you're talking about, you know, working together with your clients, working together diverse group of people, understanding what's in it for them. I think that's very important. And rounding out to the last question, now that we are kind of at the start of 2024. What are you most excited about, personally and professionally, and maybe from industry perspective, this year?

Rebecca: 38:01

Yes, so there are a few trends that I'm seeing in the financial industry world that I'm really excited. Well, first of all, I would be remiss if I don't talk about AI. Personally, I love chat to PT and, underpinned by that technology, I use it every day. You know there's always people make fun of me here. Human is always better than robot. Yes, it is. I think it's important for us to really know the power of AI, or generative AI, and see how it can help organization or individual you and me to be more productive, so that now you can prioritize your time for better things. For example, I love playing piano. That's one thing I want to keep doing more to remind why human are human, but for other stuff, and leverage AI or generative AI. Let's leverage it and really learn the power and stay on top of it. And, of course, the whole discussion of AI, the government framework, right, security and all of those need to be discussed in conjunction. Exploring the opportunity Another big trend it's not new, new trend right, substantible financing. I think we talked about for many years, but I think these few years I'm really seeing a lot of momentum from financial industry or from other blue chip cooperation that looking at ESG as a consideration on how they invest or how they land or how they want to choose their vendor right. For example, in all organizations like Walmart and P&G, they require their supplier to comply with the ESG governance framework right. So that will play a full circle of what consumer has been focusing for quite some time, but now, with the large cooperation of playing a part, that will really drive more material results. So that is what I'm quite excited about. I think we all need to learn what does that mean to reduce carbon footprint? And what are the key trends of ESG in different industries? Right, like in agriculture, like in real estate, what can we do as organizations or as individuals? And the innovation or technology come with that. And then there are other trends like cybersecurity.

Rebecca: 40:47

Fraud. Risk management is very important In the financial industry. I know fraud laws these days globally can be hundreds of billions of dollars, and it's not a question of if, it's a question of when right. So, and when you talk about innovation, this is the area that have a lot of innovation. No matter how fast the technology change right, the bad actor it seems to always be ahead of the curve. Right From financial industry, like you know, there's accounts takeover, identity fraud, credit card fraud, business email compromise, phishing, attack, social engineering, you name it. So I think we, all organizations, have to continue to invest to to be bullet proof, right and as well as using how do you use data analytics or algorithm to prevent or brought some of the fraud. And that is not a once and done, because, as I see in the bank, the bad actor, they learn very quickly, right, and and it's just something that we have to continue to invest in the data side, in the government side, in the protection side as well as sometimes the fraud.

Rebecca: 42:18

Really the weakest link is really from within. So the employee education is any organization is important because the bad actor will go to where you have the weakest link and break through. So these are the trends that I'm seeing and I'm excited to you know personally, learn more and see you know from different part of the world. You know what this leading, leading ahead, that we can learn from each other.

Daphne: 42:51

Yeah, and I think it's very important just to understand like what could be the leading technology and apply it back to what we are doing, wherever we might be, and we definitely have a lot to learn from each other. Thank you so much again, rebecca, for joining me, for a very inspiring morning for me and evening for you, and it has been absolutely lovely to hear your experiences and also see how you're so open minded in terms of understanding and always learning, and also embracing resilience and grit in every decision and move that you're making, and there's so much to learn from you, and very, very happy and thankful for you to join us in today's episode.

Rebecca: 43:36

Thank you so much for having me have a good rest of the day.

Daphne: 43:39

Thank you for listening to Business Beyond Borders. If you have any feedback or thoughts, do write to us at support@ bluente. c om. Click to follow to tune into the next episode. See you again soon.